DevilsAdvocate_DA

Joined

• started 15 topics
• posted 80 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by DevilsAdvocate_DA

• 
  11

  "Problems"

  by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "life is a series of problems".

  the problems we face will either defeat us or develop us -- depending on how we respond to them.

  unfortunately most of us fail to see how jehovah wants to use problems for good in our lives.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  Skinner,

  AMEN and AMEN.

  DA
• 
  20

  BigRocksFirst

  by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one day, an expert in time management was speaking to a group of business students and, to drive home a point, used a illustration those students will never forget.. as he stood in front of the group of high-powered overachievers he said,"okay,.

  time for a quiz.

  " and he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouth mason jar and set it on the table in fornt of him.. he also produced about a dozen fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the jar.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  Brother,

  You, like myself, have found words of wisdom in Jehovah's word.

  Thanks for that very positive view on reality.

  What I have said, I have said.

  DA
• 
  20

  BigRocksFirst

  by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one day, an expert in time management was speaking to a group of business students and, to drive home a point, used a illustration those students will never forget.. as he stood in front of the group of high-powered overachievers he said,"okay,.

  time for a quiz.

  " and he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouth mason jar and set it on the table in fornt of him.. he also produced about a dozen fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the jar.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  OutnFree, many I call you sister?

  Sister, that was one fine post. If more would be up front, instead of hiding behind, whatever. We would have a more honest group.

  Sis, what I mean by this is, and I am not saying you and not in all cases other here, but by a large number, everyone is blaming someone else for their problems of life. We need to be responsible humans and carry our own problems as long as we can.

  In my personal opinion you are doing the correct thing in going back to the Bible.
  
  On another personal view, I never tell anyone I am one of JW's (unless I am in house to house work) I aways say lets see what the Bible has to say. For me the Bible is a good book to live by. For example, one point, if I can apply Galation 5:22-23 in my life I think I will be doing ok. I keep trying. Sis, this might sound strange to you, but I don't ask Jehovah to solve this problem or that problem for me no more than an adult after leaving his parents home is forever going back for advice. If the parents did a good job of setting down good standards that adult will know what to do. The same with Jehovah and His word the Bible. The standards are good if your looking for the good and not focusing on the bad.

  On the matter of looking into other books of wisdom, I encourage you to do so. I do. We can find good advice from books of whatever, as long as they are for our good health -- mentality, physically and emotionaly.

  DA
• 
  11

  "Problems"

  by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "life is a series of problems".

  the problems we face will either defeat us or develop us -- depending on how we respond to them.

  unfortunately most of us fail to see how jehovah wants to use problems for good in our lives.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  GinnyTosken,

  I got this data in an e-mail from a non-witness source about 3 months ago.

  I thought it very enlightening.

  As regards Jehovah causing all our problems. Well, as I have said many, many times, I do not believe so.

  Jehovah is just setting back watching us JACKASSES making JACKASSES out of ourselves.

  DA
• 
  20

  BigRocksFirst

  by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one day, an expert in time management was speaking to a group of business students and, to drive home a point, used a illustration those students will never forget.. as he stood in front of the group of high-powered overachievers he said,"okay,.

  time for a quiz.

  " and he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouth mason jar and set it on the table in fornt of him.. he also produced about a dozen fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the jar.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  Expatbrit, TR, hippikon, riz, outnfree, and safe4kids,

  If in fact, as you say, Jehovah God, His Son Jesus Christ and the operation of Jehovahs' holy spirit are not the big rocks in your life, then what do you have to offer that is of more valuable. I believe if you re-read the post, the point was, not people or organization should be the big rocks in our lives, but Jehvoah God, Jesus Christ and the holy spirit. What you translated it to mean is beyond me.

  It is very easy to damn someone for his or her thoughts. But it is another thing to give a person direction that will not bring harm. Your post gave nothing of value but only criticism , sorry, but the truth hurts, does it not.

  Think about this for your nezt post, if you wish.

  I read some of the posters here who have left God and the JW's who say they are happy as a lark. But my question to you is "Where's the beef". Or in plain words, what substance (beef) do you have to offer? I would like to consider it if you have found something better. I try to reason on every post, (there are many intelligent and reasonable posters) to determine what do they have that could make my life better.

  Question number two.

  What kind of people do you think would be drawn to your viewpoint? What BIG ROCKS do you have to offer? Are you holding out on me and other posters?

  DA
• 
  11

  "Problems"

  by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "life is a series of problems".

  the problems we face will either defeat us or develop us -- depending on how we respond to them.

  unfortunately most of us fail to see how jehovah wants to use problems for good in our lives.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  "LIFE IS A SERIES OF PROBLEMS"

  The problems we face will either defeat us or develop us -- depending on how we respond to them. Unfortunately most of us fail to see how Jehovah wants to use problems for good in our lives. We react foolishly and resent our problems rather than pausing to consider what benefit they might bring. Here are five ways Jehovah wants us to use problems in our life:

  Jehovah uses problems to DIRECT us. Sometimes Jehovah must light a fire under us to get us moving. Problems often point us in a new direction and motivate us to change. Is Jehovah trying to get our attention? "Blows that hurt cleanse away evil, as do stripes the inner depths of the heart". Proverbs 20:30 (NKJV)

  Jehovah uses problems to INSPECT us. We are like a tea bag ...... if we want to know what's inside it, just drop it into hot water! Has Jehovah ever tested our faith with a problem??? What do poblems reveal about us? "My brothers, whenever you have to face trails of many kinds, count yourselves supremely happy, in the knowledge that such testing of your faith breeds fortitude, and if you give fortitude full play you will go on to complete a balanced character that will fall short in nothing." James 1:2-3 (NEV)

  Jehovah uses problems to CORRECT us. Some lessons we learn only through pain and failure. It's likely that as a child our parents told us not to touch a hot stove. But we probably learned by being burned. Sometimes we only learn the value of something ... health ... money ... a relationship ... by losing it. "How good it is for me to have been punished, to school me in thy statues!" Psalm 119:71 (NEV)
  Jehovah uses problems to PROTECT us. A problem can be a blessing in disguise IF it prevents us from being harmed by something more serious. Last year a friend was fired for refusing to do something unethical that his boss had asked him to do. (No, he was not a Jehvoah's Witness!!!!!!!!) His unemployment was a problem -- but it saved him form being convicted and sent to prison a year later when management's actions were eventually discovered. " Genesis 50:20 "You meant to do me harm; but God meant to bring good out of it people, as we see today." (NEV)

  Jehovah uses problems to PERFECT us. Problems, when responded to correctly, are character builders. Jehovah is far more interested in our character than our comfort. Our relationship to Jehovah and our character (not an organiztion) are the only two things we're going to take with us into eternity. Romans 5:3-4, "More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces character, and character porduces hope," (RSV)

  Here's the point, brothers and sisters: Jehovah God is at work in our lives -- even when we do not recognize it or understand it. But it's much easier and profitable when we do. He is also in the lives of people who wield authority over others unjustly. If they abuse this authority it may cause us much grief, but remember THEY are also under inspection and judgment. Will we throw away our values because someone else does us wrong or will it cause us to cling more to what we know is right and to our God Jehovah who allows these problems and will one day right ALL wrongs.

  DA
• 
  25

  I Look Death in the Eye

  by COMF in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have always had trouble breathing.

  in track i was great for a quick burst of speed in the 50 yard dash, but couldn't move enough air in and out to keep myself going for the longer runs like the 330. i had sleep apnea really bad, with the classic symptoms where i stopped breathing for a while and then suddenly snorted myself awake gasping for breath.

  for most of my life, surgery wasn't an option due to my jw lifestyle and employment choices (cleaning business = no insurance).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  Comf,

  This devilish ones says, "I am glad you made it."

  I and my wife enjoyed your postings over on H20.

  Good it see you here.

  DA
• 
  20

  BigRocksFirst

  by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one day, an expert in time management was speaking to a group of business students and, to drive home a point, used a illustration those students will never forget.. as he stood in front of the group of high-powered overachievers he said,"okay,.

  time for a quiz.

  " and he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouth mason jar and set it on the table in fornt of him.. he also produced about a dozen fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the jar.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  Big Rocks First

  One day, an expert in time management was speaking to a group of business students and, to drive home a point, used a illustration those students will never forget.

  As he stood in front of the group of HIGH-POWERED overachievers he said,"Okay,. time for a quiz." and he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouth mason jar and set it on the table in fornt of him.

  He also produced about a dozen fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the jar. When the jar was filled to the top and no more rocks would fit inside, he asked, "Is this jar full?" Everyone in the class yelled, "Yes"

  The time management expert replied, "Really?" He reached under the table and pulled out a bucket of gravel. He dumped some gravel in shook the jar, carefully, causing pieces of gravel to work themselves down into the spaces between th big rocks.

  He then asked the group once, more, "Is the jar full?"

  By this time the class was on to him. "Probably not," one of them ansewerd.

  "Good!" he replied. He reached under the table and brought out a bucket of sand. He started dumping the sand in the jar and it went into all the spaces left between the rocks and the gravel. Once more he asked the question, "Is the jar full?"

  "No!" the class shouted.

  Once again he said, "Good." Then he grabbed a pitcher of water and began to pour it in until the jar was filled to the brim. Then he looked at the class and asked, "What is the point of this illustration?"

  One eager beaver raised his hand and said, "The point is, no matter how full our schedule is, if we try really hard we can always fit some more things in it!"

  "No," the speaker replied, "that's not the point. The truth this illustration teaches us is:
  If we don't put the big rocks in first, you'll never get them in at all. --WHAT ARE THE 'BIG ROCKS' IN OUR LIVES-- , our faith ( DA addition -- in Jehovah God, His Son Jesus Christ and the workings of His holy spirit** -- not an organization. The Jews of Jesus time gave us a good example of not trusting in Jehovah and Jesus. For 98 % that post here I need not remind. But for the other 2 %, the Jews hard hearts lost their nation in 70 CE for putting trust in an ORGANIZATION.), time with ones loved ones, a worthy cause, teaching or mentoring others, our education, your dreams?

  Remember, brothers and sisters, if you would please, put the BIG ROCKS in first or we'll never fill our jar to it's capacity. So, tonight, or in the morning, when you and I reflecting on this stort story, we need to ask ourselves this question: What are the 'BIG ROCKS' in our lives?

  Then, put those in our jar first.

  END OF SERMON

  DA

  **If we have replaced the BIG ROCKS with be a governing body member, a bethelite, a circuit overseer or district overseer, a pioneer, an elder, a ministerial servant, etc., etc., all the important items will never make it into our jar.
• 
  2

  DF'ing: SPIRITUAL ASSAULT

  by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a post made by rick on h20, back on january 17, 2001. for those who have read it before, read for encouragement again.

  for all those who will be reading it for the first time, read it over again, please.

  it takes several readings to really appreciate its full impact.. in my professional opinion, ricks post is the master of masters when it come to the issue of disfellowshiping.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  Brother,

  Went it comes, and it will come, that the day of touching your flesh, you will be in total shock. Just like many other individuals - who thought it would never happen to them - were and are in shock.

  Until that day comes, may you have peace.

  DA
• 
  2

  DF'ing: SPIRITUAL ASSAULT

  by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a post made by rick on h20, back on january 17, 2001. for those who have read it before, read for encouragement again.

  for all those who will be reading it for the first time, read it over again, please.

  it takes several readings to really appreciate its full impact.. in my professional opinion, ricks post is the master of masters when it come to the issue of disfellowshiping.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  DevilsAdvocate_DA

  This is a post made by Rick on H20, back on January 17, 2001. For those who have read it before, read for encouragement again. For all those who will be reading it for the first time, read it over again, please. It takes several readings to really appreciate its full impact.

  In my professional opinion, Ricks post is the MASTER OF MASTERS when it come to the issue of disfellowshiping. I personally have spoken much on this subject, here and over on H20, with the same mindset as Ricks comments.

  With Ricks’ approval, I have forward this material on to the WBTS for their consideration with other that posted to Ricks post, including mine.

  Here we go.

  DF’ing: SPIRITUAL ASSAULT

  Posted by Rick [Rick] on January 17, 2001, at 18:23:36 {qgpK7SVYI.3mlgkntx/MFMFBt36Xyc}:

  Just like a husband brutally forcing his control over his wife through the physical act of forcing her to have relations with him against her will, so this metaphor is played out by “Judical Committees” comprised of elders in tens of thousands of Kingdom Halls weekly.

  Although the Watchtower Society claims that disfellowshiping is an act of love (as I was reminded in this recent post ), I believe it’s real intent is an forceful act of spiritual control over congregation members who step out of line. Is the phrase “spiritual assault” or even more strongly “spiritual rape” too forceful? To answer that I had to ask myself what is the physical act of assault or rape? Is it about harming a person’s body or satisfying an act of sex? No, it’s about forced control. Then what is the spiritual act of rape? Does it involve spirituality? Again, no, it’s about forced control.

  The disfellowshiped individual is forced to no longer participate in congregation fellowship by being denied[ this human right. Congregation members are forced to completely ignore the disfellowship victim by being threatened with expulsion themselves for fraternizing with a disfellowshipee. Who does the forcing? It is the disfellowshipers who were literally drafted into a Judicial Committee by virtue of being elders appointees. Who appointed and pulls the invisible strings that compel these elders into the cruel act of disfellowshiping of those who step out of line? Why, it is the Watchtower Society, of course. Specifically it is those individuals within the Watchtower who claim divine inspiration in the use of disfellowshiping.

  Ministers of churches are held by the public in a position of public trust, much like doctors, lawyers and psychiatrists. It is highly unethical to reveal what goes on behind closed doors in these professions. However, a public announcement or even privately warning congregation members not to speak to individusls who were supposedly “disciplined for their own spiritual benefit” in private is a violation of the deepest sort of personal privacy. When it is clearly understood by congregation members that being told not (to) speak to someone means they were likely disfellowshiped for gross wrongdoing, then it is the same as announcing a disfellowshiping publicly.

  As a result of the methods used to disseminate threats to congreagation members that they are to avoid disfellowshiped individuals or face disfellowshiping themselves.the act of disfellowshiping is no longer a form of trying to help someone. It is no longer a form of loving or even less than loving discipline. It is not discipline at all, but a form of controlling individuals who step out of line.

  Examples of stepping out of line:

  expressing a belief openly that is contrary to the interpretations of the “divinely inspired” ones at the Watchtower headquarters.
  greeting a disfellowshiped one.
  expressing a disagreement with a Watchtower teaching or practice.
  and so forth.

  By teaching that those found at Armageddon in a “disfellowshiped state” may be executed by God without the hope of a resurrection (the same fate as the Watchtower teaches will “likely occur” to non-Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide), the act of disfellowshiping becomes a weapon similar to a gun aimed at the one accused of “wrongdoing.” By telling a person they must comply with Society teaching to not be disfellowshiped, many are faced with a choice of;

  lyingly claiming they no longer disagree with the Society’s teachings.
  lyingly claiming they no longer practice something not in accord with the Society’s teaching.
  or having their lives ruined by a disfellowshiping.

  Many fail to grasp the enormity of disfellowshiping. If one has built a career at a company where their boss is also a JW, then they are thrusted into an impossible situation that often leads to the loss of employment. Worse, families who are JW will not speak to them, leading to a dysfunctional family and possibly severe psychiatric problems with the children and spouse who is not allowed by the elders to speak to their disfellowshiped family member (or face expulsion themselves). Fear is often the operative word in these types of situations, as those who love the disfellowshiped person ask, “is it worth losing out on everlasting life, as the Society warns, if I speak to this disfellowshiped individual?”

  The entire life of a person, then,. revolves around the spiritual congregation life they have built over the course of many years that, like siamese twin, is joined to every other aspect of their life. Kill one of the twins, and the other dies. Kill a person’s spiritual life and their life is destroyed. Therefore is this spiritual life they have built in service to God as sacred spiritually, as the bond between a husband and wife is also sacred spiritually as well as psychologically, emotionally, emotionally and physically? It is apparent, then, that the act of spiritual “communion” one has developed in the congregation is as intimate spiritually as the act of sex between a husband and wife is intimate physically and emotionally.

  Consider, then if a husband beats his wife when she doesn’t live up to his expectations, is he not trying to control her towards meeting his personal expectations? Suppose a husband is more astute on legalities and decides, instead, to declare a “silent period” as punishment for her not meeting his expectations in some manner? Suppose he refuses to speak to her for at least one year or more, and compels the kids to do the same and ignore her for that period of time, or face sanctions themselves (such as discontinuance of their allowance or other privileges)? Suppose he convinces her that she is a terrible person until he decides to “reinstate” her with full family speaking privileges? Suppose he even compels her (to) come in the back door of the house rather than front door to minimize facing the kids for the duration of her punishment? Is this psychological abuse not as intolerable as physical abuse?

  Yet as adults with constitutional rights, as taxpaying citizens who often have responsibilities in corporations and often own homes, we should have freedom to work out our own salvation before God. How is it possible, then, for a religious organization we trust with our hearts to hold a life-destroying punishment, sanction and threat of spiritual death (all rolled into one vicious package) over all our heads? How can we stand by like fearful emasculated citizens of totalitarian regimes are know to do, and allow the SPIRITUAL ASSAULT of those who have been yoked together with us as spiritual brothers and sisters? How can we then proceed to fearfully share in the crimes of those whom the Society has drafted as “henchman” by further traumatizing these victims of spiritual abuse? Why doesn’t the body of congregations that comprise Jehovah’s Witnesses and the circuit and district overseers over these congregations speak out enmasse against this outrageous abuse in Jehovah’s name against defenseless little lambs who need nurturing and love? In essence, the committees of elders formed by the Watchtower to try and convict congregation members whose “crimes” are the sins that Jesus Christ died for, are bludgeoning these little lambs to death in judicial hearing rooms throughout the world.

  And when the few who spiritually “live” manage to crawl, spiritually bloodied and bruised, into the gathering of sheep, their frail helpless bodies are even dishonored and treated as worthless. They are so precious in Jehovah’s eyes, and yet they are spit upon by those compelled to break their baptism vows by compromising to the teachings of a few men who have long ago left the narrow road we strive to follow. If you who read this post are in a position to legally stop them, then it is your obligation to! Jehovah could do it himself, but then why does he use those who claim to serve him to stop unscriptural practices like disfellowshiping in the congregation? Because Jehovah tests our loving willingness to do what is in our human power. That has always been His way, and I appeal to your heart not to let Jehovah down.

  Rick

  Re-posted by: DevilAdvocate_DA