Posts by V

18) God's Word does not disclose a precise date for the first resurrection, but it does reveal that it occurs over a period of time, during Christ's presence. The first to be resurrected are anointed Christians who died before Christ's presence began. As Christ's presence progresses, anointed Christians who faithfully finish their earthly course are changed "in the twinkling of an eye" into powerful spirit creatures. (1 Corinthians 15:52) Will all the anointed receive their heavenly reward before the war of Armageddon? We do not know. We do know, however, that in God's due time, all the 144,000 will be found standing on the heavenly Mount Zion.

Questions From Readers: What is the sealing referred to at Revelation 7:3? (page 31)

When will the remnant of anointed Christians who have initially been sealed receive their final sealing? Any still alive on earth will be sealed "in their foreheads" before the outbreak of the great tribulation. When the four winds of tribulation are unleashed, all of spiritual Israel will have been sealed in finality, even though a few will still be alive in the flesh and must yet finish their earthly course.

22

10 lies you have to believe in, to be in the "truth"

by pallemar in

jw
friends

well i likeked the headline ;) he he .

so hov manny lies, can we find, you have to believe in, to be in jehovas witness ?.

i will start with the first one.. 1. you must not believe the humand race is older than 6000 years!.

V

607 (JWs are the ONLY group that believe this is the date when Jerusalem fell.)

12

Tony Dungy, and cognitive dissonance

by DanTheMan in

jw
friends

one thing that always struck me about jw's was their insularity, how truly ignorant so many of them are about the world outside of their world.

to hear many jw's talk, worldly people, to a person, live in a constant state of debauchery.. i would guess that the majority of american jw's were watching the super bowl last night.

towards the end of the game, phil simms (the color commentator for cbs) was talking about how tony dungy (the coach of the indianapolis colts) never raises his voice, never curses, is "class" all the way.

V

Really "good" people in the world do not fit into the JW mindset.

The response that Dungy would get from some JWs is: "He is such a sheep-like personality. He needs to find the truth."

The JW mind claims such ones as their own when they appear too good for the world. As soon as Dungy appears as "follower of Christendom", then he can be written off as a member of Satan's false religion. And so the JW mind rests.

44

AWESOME! New Article on Blood and Canadian Sextuplets

by V in

ethicist says b.c.

blood feud may save children and jehovah's witness parents.

published: thursday, february 1, 2007 | 8:46 pm et.

V

And I am I the only person that finds the idea of the government seizing someone's children, just a little disturbing?

If it is because of child abuse, bloody hell yes!

Besides the Canadian government "seized" legal control over the babies, thus permitting the doctors to perform tranfusions if needed. The babies were not whisked away in a physical sense.

44

AWESOME! New Article on Blood and Canadian Sextuplets

by V in

ethicist says b.c.

blood feud may save children and jehovah's witness parents.

published: thursday, february 1, 2007 | 8:46 pm et.

V

Removed, duplicate of Skeeter's post below...

44

AWESOME! New Article on Blood and Canadian Sextuplets

by V in

ethicist says b.c.

blood feud may save children and jehovah's witness parents.

published: thursday, february 1, 2007 | 8:46 pm et.

V

BTT

44

AWESOME! New Article on Blood and Canadian Sextuplets

by V in

ethicist says b.c.

blood feud may save children and jehovah's witness parents.

published: thursday, february 1, 2007 | 8:46 pm et.

V

Ethicist says B.C. blood feud may save children and Jehovah's Witness parents

Published: Thursday, February 1, 2007 | 8:46 PM ET
Canadian Press: SCOTT SUTHERLAND AND DIRK MEISSNER
Source: http://www.cbc.ca/cp/health/070201/x020115A.html

VICTORIA (CP) - Four babies are struggling to live while a furious debate rages outside their hospital room about religious freedom and the power of the state to protect its citizens.

The four babies are the survivors of Vancouver sextuplets born last month almost three months premature. The parents are Jehovah's Witnesses who say they were horrified when the government seized custody of three of them and gave two blood transfusions, a procedure their religion forbids.

The B.C. government said it was obligated by law to temporarily seize the babies and administer the blood transfusions for health reasons against the wishes of their parents.

It's gut-wrenching, emotion-churning territory, all while the lives of four children hang in the balance, says Dr. Juliet Guichon, a medical ethicist at the University of Calgary who has monitored other clashes between Jehovah's Witnesses and government.

But the blood battle has the potential to end happily for the parents and their babies, she said.

Ironically, it all depends on how hard they fight the government.

"(It) could be seen as liberating because it takes the parents out of an impossible social situation," said Guichon.

The parents, who risk being shunned for life by the church because their children received the transfusions, can now plead they abided by the blood ban, but couldn't stop the government, she said.

"They can hold their head up among the Jehovah's Witness community and say, 'We protested, we went to court."'

The church and the parents know deep down the government will step in to save the children, even if it means blood transfusions, Guichon said.

Two medical experts helped advise the B.C. government to seize the children.

The Canadian Press has learned the government used the medical experts' advice to apply a section of the B.C. Child, Family and Community Service Act in taking custody of the children.

Section 30 allowed the government to act before the parents had a hearing, even though one was scheduled for later this month.

That section says the province's regional director of child welfare doesn't need a court order to move in as long as there are "reasonable grounds" to believe the child's health or safety is in immediate danger.

"(My wife) and I could not bear to be at the hospital while they were violating our little girl," the father of the sextuplets said in a court affidavit.

"We took our immense sadness and grief and tried to console each other in private."

The parents, who cannot be identified under a court order, have refused to speak to the media since their children were born in the first week of January almost three months premature.

Two of the sextuplets have since died and the rest have remained in hospital.

Last Friday, the government took custody of three of the remaining children and the blood transfusions were done. On Wednesday, the government withdrew the seizure order and the parents regained custody.

However, the act allows the province to move in once again if the circumstances are repeated.

The group that speaks for the Christian sect in Canada was inundated with calls Thursday from reporters wanting to know its response to the current controversy and seeking clarification on why Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions.

The release also said hospitals in Canada and the United States have treated extremely premature infants without blood transfusions by taking smaller samples of blood and accepting lower hemoglobin levels, among other things.

"It is important for the media and others to avoid making stereotypical assumptions regarding Jehovah's Witnesses," the statement said.

When asked why the sect refuses blood transfusions, spokesman Mark Ruge directed reporters to the Jehovah's Witnesses website.

On it, the group cites Bible passages to back up their belief. They include Leviticus 17:10-14, which reads in part:

"And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people."

The group also cites Acts 15:19-20, which states that God's followers must "abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

But Jehovah's Witnesses are not barred from receiving organ transplants or from using blood products.

"Since the Bible makes no clear statement about the use of minor blood fractions or the immediate reinfusion of a patient's own blood during surgery, a medical process known as blood salvaging, the use of such treatments is a matter of personal choice," the site says.

Similarly, the faith has no problem with vaccines, some of which contain blood products.

A former Jehovah's Witness said the blood ban isn't always as strict as it appears.

"The word is symantics," said Kerry Louderback-Wood, of Fort Myers, Florida.

"A rose by another name smells sweeter. On one hand, we do not take blood in any form. On the other hand, 'Oh, you can have albumen, hemoglobin, by personal decision."'

Louderback-Wood, 38 and almost nine months pregnant, said her mother died of a heart attack after she refused a blood transfusion late in her life.

Earlier in her life, she accepted blood after hemorrhaging while giving birth to one of her children, she said.

Louderback-Wood said she remembers her mother telling her there were some things in life that should be kept from the church.

She said she quit being a Jehovah's Witness in her teens when she realized her university aspirations would be frowned on by the church.

She said in a later e-mail that Jehovah's Witness doctrine has shifted over the years. For example, she said in the 1960s, organ transplants weren't allowed, but they are now.

"What's sad is think of all the people who died or came down with polio/other diseases because of these bans that were later lifted.

"Why should the baby's die, when Jehovah may change his stance on blood in the future."

5

still at it

by Phil in

story tools: e-mail | print | text size: smlxl | report typo | send your feedbackb.c.

intervenes to get 1 of the b.c.

sextuplets a transfusionlast updated: wednesday, january 31, 2007 | 2:43 pm pt cbc newsthe b.c.

V

Source: http://www.680news.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n013199A

B.C. government seizes three sextuplets for blood transfusions

January 31, 2007 - 19:41
By: STEVE MERTL

VANCOUVER (CP) - The B.C. government ignored Supreme Court of Canada rulings and seized three sextuplets last week, allowing doctors to give them blood transfusions before their parents were able to challenge the move in court, the family's lawyer says.

Two of the sextuplets had died previously since the babies were born in the first week of January almost three months premature. At the time, the parents didn't want any details about their children released, however they did allow hospital officials to reveal that they are Jehovah's Witnesses.

Their religion does not permit blood transfusions and the family had expressly stated they didn't want the procedure.

Instead, they indicated to doctors they wanted to seek medical alternatives, said Shane Brady, the family's lawyer.

"The family is very upset that the government treated them in the way it did," he said outside court.

"It's like a hit and run."

Brady appeared in B.C. Supreme Court on Wednesday challenging the seizure order when the government surprisingly withdrew the order.

"They've returned the children," Brady said.

But the parents, who cannot be named under court order, want to persist in appealing the seizure order. They've been given a court date of Feb. 22 and 23.

Minister of Children and Families Tom Christensen refused to discuss the case specifically.

But he said doctors have an obligation to go to ministry authorities when they believe a child is in danger.

"We don't take any such action without a great deal of forethought, recognizing that it's a significant step for the state to interfere in a family," Christensen said.

"But we want to ensure in every case that children are receiving the attention they require."

When asked what comes first, religion or the state, Christensen replied: "Our obligation to protect children is paramount."

Brady said the transfusions made little difference in the condition of the children. He said they are in stable condition.

He said a Supreme Court of Canada decision in 1995 gave parents the right to present evidence at a hearing in such matters. In 1999, the high court affirmed that, saying it is a fundamental right of Canadian society.

"So what took place here was a complete abdication," said Brady.

"They ignored completely what the Supreme Court of Canada said."

Brady has represented several Jehovah's Witness children in the courts in recent years, including 17-year-old Bethany Hughes of Calgary, who died of leukemia in 2002 after her father battled his daughter and her mother for her to have blood transfusions during her treatment.

The first of the six babies were born Jan. 6 with the rest born Jan. 7. They were premature at 25 weeks and each was not much bigger than an outstretched hand.

Normally, babies are not born until 40 weeks.

Dr. Liz Whynot, president of B.C. Women's Hospital, said at the time the babies were almost three months premature and were in fair condition after their births.

Doctors said babies born at that stage have an 80-per-cent chance of surviving to leave the hospital.

But doctors also said that despite the strong odds, the sextuplets would face steep challenges.

The early delivery meant all the babies' organs were immature, with underdeveloped lungs that required artificial ventilation and problems with eating.

Underdeveloped immune systems made them more vulnerable to infection.

3

YouTube "Knocking" Interview with Featured JWs

by V in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc_ht-8uuig.

V

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC_ht-8UUIg