i know this is slightly off-topic but i find alot of the discussion here somewhat depressing and most of it is far too cerebral for me.
i (obviously) live in america and i'm a big fan of beer.
light, dark, lager, ale, whatever.
Dark beers preferred here--Guinness or Murphy's Irish Stout. The darker the better. Stone Brewing Company in California makes an Imperial Russian Stout that is hard to find but excellent..
As I live near the Mexican border, Tecate, Bohemia, & Negro Modelo are probably my favorite brands from there. From Canada, Molson & Labatt Blue. Beck's Dark & Spaten Optimator from Germany.
Cheers!!!
DR
since the last few days, i pass right in front, and i noticed the vines growing on the side of the kingdom hall.
now, the whole side wall is completely covered with vines.. looking at the vines, it reminded me of a face with a goatee or a beard.
so, if they can have vines on their building, a brother should be allowed to have a goatee....
Right on about the goatees, JH. One of the first signs of my rebellion. An elder called me into the 'back room' (i.e., inner sanctum) when I was 'fading' to talk about mine (but curiously could not provide me with a Biblical or WT source for the ruling...). Five years later, I still wear it proudly..
My KH was never easy to get to in the first place, so I definitely see no need to drive by it now!!!
So true, Lilybird, about the nice shiny new cars in the parking lot. Aren't they supposed to be 'simplifying' materially now that Armageddon is just weeks away??? Probably all of them four-door sedans too (another 'ruling' I could never find the source of..)
DR
i was thinking how unnatural it is for most people to knock on stranger's doors and tell them that if they don't respond to what they were trying to get across, that they were going to be killed by god.
.....then there's the obligation to join the theocratic ministry school and go on a platform and give talks---even if you had a phobia!
.....or you're made to feel that you must answer at the meetings even if you're extremely shy.....are there other things that you can think of that made you totally uncomfortable?
Pretty much everything, but for me the two biggies were field service & avoiding holidays..
Field service--when I am truly honest with myself, I have to admit that even at my most fanatical I never considered it 'natural.' Going to strangers' doors for ANY reason has always made me nervous, but doing so to present a message that you KNOW will not be well-received is CLEARLY UNNATURAL. Try doing it in the middle of a Tucson summer when it is approaching 100 degrees by 9:00 am, or in a territory where you ran into kids from school (the teasing that would follow on Monday...)
Avoiding holidays (or the flag salute)--always hell. No matter how much I thought I was 'pleasing Jehovah,' or how many times my parents went over the 'School' brochure & told me the things to parrot back to teachers or schoolmates, being laughed at as I sat on the sidelines or left the room was NEVER NATURAL...
DesertRat
do they live forever in the paradise?.
there won't be any scavengers to cleanup.
( come to think of it will maggots and worms be vegetarians?).
I wonder how many other JW 'lifers' out there had the heartbreaking experience of being told that a beloved pet who died wouldn't have a resurrection. The first dog I ever had (a black Samoyed--quite rare) was struck & killed by a car. My father found him in a ditch by the side of the road after he had been missing for a couple of days. Somewhere in my ignorant (i.e., not yet fully programmed) seven-year-old mind a ray of hope flashed briefly & I said aloud, "But at least I can play with Laddie again in the New Order?" That is when my father knelt down beside me & told me as gently as he couldn't that that wouldn't happen.
I became so hysterical that my parents had to literally drag me from the grave we had dug
DesertRat
for me, on the positive side, having some religious training did keep me out of trouble growing up.
now, on the other hand.....
In so many ways..
The biggest frustration for me is that consciously or intellectually I realized long ago that I was fed a lie (the false doctrines & prophecies, etc.) for so many years, yet the emotional & psychological issues (friends left behind, will I really die at Armageddon, etc) have up to now refused to go away..
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
you are only an invisible observer.
you cannot interact with people or the surroundings at all and will remain unaffected by the experience.
history will not notice you.. so, do you choose to be present 3 hours before and after the big bang!?
I wouldn't mind seeing the Mayan civilization in all of its pre-Conquest glory--perhaps stop at cities like Chichen Itza, Palenque, & Tikal. It would be great to witness a New Fire ceremony (held once every 52 years) at the pyramids..
DR
(aka Mayan Freak)
i care about all of you.
i love some of you and have told you that, some i love and haven't told (yet).
for some of us, those here truly are family and friends.
Once I never would have thought it possible to experience real support & compassion on a message board. How wrong I was.. Not only have many of you been there for me when I needed it, but I have also had a long-missed opportunity to give of myself by helping one or two in particular (via personal messages back & forth) who were themselves experiencing real distress. One day I hope to be able to help, in some way, anyone & everyone here that might need it.
I was contemplating suicide again in the weeks prior to coming here. The terrible agony & loneliness of not belonging (& not wanting to belong) in the Organization, combined with never finding my place in the world at large, was getting to be too much to bear. While things are still difficult, I am very glad now that I did not make that decision.
I love you all,
DesertRat
two weeks ago a very dear friend of 20 years had a heart attack.
he went to the hospital and they inserted three stents.
we all thought he was going to do well afterwards.
So sorry to hear about your friend.
You have done the right thing by sharing this story with us, & for allowing yourself to cry. Really let it out. Above all, remember that the special bond which you two had will remain with you forever..
My thoughts & prayers are with you.
DR
i was raised from the womb until the age of 16 as a jw, i was never really a part of it.
i never got baptized, by the end i hated everything about it.
the worst part was not being able to voice any opinions i had on the religion, not unless i wanted them to fall on deaf ears and be considered immoral.
Thank you for sharing your story with us.
I have been able to find some common ground with almost everyone's story here, & yours is no exception--there was the same pressure to put on a good 'appearance' for Jehovah & the Organization (& never mind what other people are doing..), the same 'all-or-nothing' & 'your best is never good enough' mentality, & especially the same DISREGARD FOR PERSONAL PRIVACY. Right up to the time I left home ten years ago, my mother would enter my room at any time while I was gone to poke around & discard anything that she considered 'unchristian' or 'wrong,' end of story, no questions asked...I lost many good CD's & magazines that way..
It is also true that the 'Armageddon fear' & other programmed messages can persist long after we have made the conscious or intellectual decision to leave. What I had hoped would be a 'quick fix'--educating myself, or being educated, about the many doctrinal errors, failed prophecies, etc.,--has taken much longer than expected due to the many emotional factors which remain. Fortunately, as others here may tell you, each day does get a little easier. Coming to this site is a definite help.
Thank you again for sharing your story, & please continue to participate in the healing process with us..
DesertRat
well ive just registered with the site and not sure what to make of it.
i feel i shouldn't be here.... anyway i'm just a normal 17 year old lad from the uk who is a bit confused at the minute.
i want nothing more than to go out and enjoy myself with my mates in the world but it proves difficult.
Welcome aboard, Supersonic!!!
I was born & raised a JW & basically started the 'fade' or 'walkaway' about six years ago. This happened for many reasons, one of them being that I had never really found any satisfying answers to my most fundamental questions or concerns (such as why Jehovah permitted persecution & allowed my father to die). The final straw was during a period of severe mental & emotional crisis when I received almost no support from my 'brothers' in the congregation..
Since then there have continued to be challenges in my life, but with each passing day I grow a little stronger. Coming to this site has been a great help to me. A lifelong friend who also 'faded' from the Organization has likened the process to being a kid in a candy store for the first time: Everything is new, exciting, sometimes a little scary, but always an adventure..
Please stick around. I have made some real friends here, & know that you will too..
Regards,
DesertRat
