Mommy
You make an interesting point.
I'm not sure if your example was real, or just an illustration. But let me answer from the perspective of the Society.
As an Elder for a number of years the approach that would have been used according to the training and direction of the WBTS would be this.
For a brother to break an engagement is not in itself a "marking" matter. It becomes a problem where this becomes habitual or done casually with disregard for the sisters feelings. Surely a loving protecton for sincere sisters ( and brothers )
As an Elder onour body we would have weighed up this matter and not marked a man for an isolated incident made in his best judgement. We are /were not masters of each others faith.
Of course sometimes the congregation dont know of other similar incidents in the past or the brothers record of conducting himself in this regard. Again he may have a record, not known to the congregation ( Privately dealt with by the Elders and lovingly not publicised by them ) Remember the purpose of discipline is to correct the persons thinking, not to embarrass them in public. But where his record gives evidence of potential threat to others in the congregation it is a loving thing for the Elders to provide such warning.
Finally , rememeber the WBTS suggestion that you get to know a person well in social gatherings before making such a comittment. Once you make a comitment you have taken a large and responsible step. Should there be no consequences for hurting that sister, because he acted irresponsibly? Why did he make the comitment if he was not ready? What if he makes another commitment to another sister, marries her and dicovers the same thing after a year of marriage.....does he just break it off because he realizes he cant live with her for ever?
As for the "story" he was bombarded with ......is this not human nature ? It certainly is not an action promoted by the WBTS so why blame them ? It is the actions of imperfect ppl. I am sure there were many sincere ones in that congregation who did not participate in the story bomardment.
And BTW I agree that ppl who are married and stick with it even tho it may be loveless, are to be applauded and given the utmost respect and commendation. They are the true "marriage heroes" and will be rewarded in due time.
DFshipped
JoinedPosts by DFshipped
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33
Big Ray on Disfellowshipped Members
by truth_hurts infrom: big ray.
date: mon apr 17, 2000 8:44am.
subject: re: inactive publishers who post.
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DFshipped
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Big Ray on Disfellowshipped Members
by truth_hurts infrom: big ray.
date: mon apr 17, 2000 8:44am.
subject: re: inactive publishers who post.
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DFshipped
Dear somebody
Let me try to answer your question.
First of all there is one humugous misundferstanding about this phrase
"public reproof"
There is no such thing as "Public Reproof" The correct terminology is " reproof before onlookers" So example 1) A person commits a serious ( dfshipping ) offence and it is known only by one or a few people and is unlikely to be known by many ...that person is reproved in front of just those "Onlookers" those who are aware of the wrongdoing, so they "may be in fear"
" Public reproof" occurs when the announcement is made in the congregation because the wrongdoing is likely known by all ( example with a pregnancy or publicized action) Some call this a PUBLIC reproof but it is still a reproof before onlookers.....the onlookers being all those that will know of the wrongdoing. Not a public reproof.
Being marked is when a person is conducting themselves in a way that showes disregard for theocratic order. Example a brother who is flirtatous and flits from and hurts one sister after another dating and disrespecting the priciple of comitment. A talk "marking " him is given. Many will not be aware of who the talk is about and may not mark that person as he poses no threat to them ( like an elderly couple ) BUT a parent with young daughters will likely be aware of this dangerous lil don Juan and mark him as bad potentially dangerous social association. Not shunning him, just perhaps excluding him from their social circle to protect the daughter.
Now that is WISDOM from above !!!!!
Any questions, please email me -
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Big Ray on Disfellowshipped Members
by truth_hurts infrom: big ray.
date: mon apr 17, 2000 8:44am.
subject: re: inactive publishers who post.
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DFshipped
Big Ray
I applaud your attempt to keep df'd people from what is a truly organizationally loyal forum. I hope to join you there one day.
Please see my post under "Make new Friends" and direct anyone there who you feel would be interested.
Most people here make it clear who and what they are, thats kewl, and you have the right to do the same. I've been shot down in flames by some, and respected by others.
Keep it up.
Thanx. -
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R U disfellowshipped 2
by DFshipped inhi people.
i am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold.
i am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization i believe to be in the palm of jesus hand.. i would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.. this board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may i ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their god given right to pursue their goal.
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DFshipped
Thanks for the reply and that is a good question.
Let me try to answer it and I'm sure will be offended, so I apologise in advance if you are but hope you see the reasoning.I specifically requested contact and the opportunity to get to know disfellowshipped ones who are desirious of returning to the organization, ie: wanting to be reinstated.
If they, like me are sincere about going back, they will understand that going back effectively ends their association with other disfellowshipped people. If they are reinstated before me I would expect them to stop communicating with me and wait for my return as I will do for them.
For those who have emailed me, we have addessed this potentially painful possibility and we agree that like anything worth making sacrifices for, being reinstated is a precious gift. If any of my friends are reinstated ( and one has been ) I will respect their decision to stop association with me and am more determined than ever before to qualify again as their brother.
I hope this answers your question.
Just remember that in the meantime we are "holding hands " and helping each other through this difficult and painful time. I believe this is evidence of the true love Jesus spoke of that would exist among true followers. I love them enough to encourage them now and let them go until I can rejoin them in our brotherhood.
I hope this makes sense, if it does you are probably one of those who have joined me, if it doesnt make sense then that is why you have not joined this little circle, either way I hope the best for you. -
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R U disfellowshipped 2
by DFshipped inhi people.
i am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold.
i am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization i believe to be in the palm of jesus hand.. i would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.. this board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may i ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their god given right to pursue their goal.
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DFshipped
Hello Larc
My understanding is similar you yours. I may be wrong( it's been known to happen lol ) but I think you are right on this one.
Greetings Mommy-dearest, even though we seem to differ remarkably in our view of the organization I appreciate your views and your support.Um to be quite honest what everyone is saying here is making me think.
I mean I arrived here with no intention of decieving anyone, I dont know who is and who is not df'd or "bad association" I will keep communicating with those I feel are not trying to undermine my pursuit and ignore those that do. We all share that right and priveledge.
Hi Sixofnine
By labeling myself as I did and SPECIFICALLY spelling out my request I was not inviting what you call "purposefully bad association" to make contact.
Waiting
That sounds like a real horror story, and the said thing is that it may well be 100% fact. These things can and do happen right inside the organization. But just a thought you may wish to keep in mind :
These things have always happened ( by permission ) in Jehovahs organization.......King David....adultery, murder....disobeience
Priest Eli allowing immorality in the temple
Beautiful Angel decieved Eve and remained in association for 1000's of years before being ousted.
Even Noah did some stuff that is biblicaly condemned. But he had the only ark in the parking lot, so his wrongdoing did not alter the life-sustaining provision of that ark.Finally let me relate this for you. I was communicating regularly with a df'd person. We encouraged each other over the months. She was reinstated, and wrote me to say good-bye until it is my turn. My heart bursts with happiness for that dear sister. I do not expect her to contact me again while I am df'd. We both knew the way things work, and I know she thinks about me, she knows I think about her.
That alone is an encouragement for me. And I would feel honored to think that maybe I contributed to any degree in helping her get where she wants to be.So to those who support me, Thank you. I suppport your right to suppport me, and to those who dont support me, I also support your right not to support me. ( Try saying that fast 3 times :)
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R U disfellowshipped 2
by DFshipped inhi people.
i am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold.
i am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization i believe to be in the palm of jesus hand.. i would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.. this board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may i ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their god given right to pursue their goal.
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DFshipped
Dear Snowball
Thanks for your comments. I respect both your feelings on the issue and your courage in expressing them.
I think I do know what you mean, and will remember your words if I am able to return.
I too hope the very best for you and hope you find happiness.
Sincerely -
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R U disfellowshipped 2
by DFshipped inhi people.
i am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold.
i am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization i believe to be in the palm of jesus hand.. i would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.. this board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may i ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their god given right to pursue their goal.
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DFshipped
Dear Larc
That is an interesting question. I would like to make 3 points.1. My opening comments and request have been totally ignored and disrespected by yourself. I am not about to be drawn into more than my stated purpose on this thread.
2 Your attempt to draw meout in this way in not appropriate by the design of this db. You will have noticed that the forum is " Making new friends" I described the type of person I would like to make friends with via this forum. Perhaps you could post your question under an appropriate heading in an appropriate forum? Call it instinct but I do gut feeling that you are not of the mind described by me in my opening comments.
3 Yes I have done lots of research, enought to satisfy me that there is a place I want to be. So to have your question answered in the most blatant way, please read the stated purpose of my thread here.
Could it be clearer?Dear Everyone else : Please feel free to reply to my thread here, on the db or privately. Here is what I said :
I am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold. I am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization I believe to be in the palm of Jesus hand.
I would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.
This board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may I ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their God given right to pursue their goal. I for one would appreciate it.
Thanks all.
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41
R U disfellowshipped 2
by DFshipped inhi people.
i am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold.
i am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization i believe to be in the palm of jesus hand.. i would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.. this board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may i ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their god given right to pursue their goal.
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DFshipped
Hi Snowball
Thanks for the reply.
Yes I have done a tremendous amount of research and it all convinces me more and more about where I an to be. So much of the criticism I have read has been contradicted by other critics, this makes them questionable. A ton more though tends to rely on hearsay or based on an associated witnesses comments and actions, this would be the wrong measure to use.
I appreciate your comments.Larc
As I understand it WOL is available for bona fide witnesses, which I am not.
I did get a good response on the db and privately, but as you can see above, I did not get everyones comments. So if you have no objection I will periodically post as I did here.Edited by - dfshipped on 18 February 2001 5:5:21
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Questions for DFShipped...
by LDH inhi, dfs.. first of all, let me say it is not necessary to label yourself on this board, or anywhere on the internet for that matter.. so many of us have family members that are df'd, it really doesn't hold much water round here.
i did have some questions for you though, which of course you don't have to answer.. 1. why were you disfellowshipped?
(pls.
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DFshipped
Ive been away from this board for a while and came back to an epic.
Mommy
Thanks for your perspective, I appreciate your comments. Seems like a "true" open minded poster.
Some others amuse me.
A while ago someone posted on here and said something to the effect that he was a JW, gave talks and answered but also came and associated here. He asked if people though the was leading a double life. A RESOUNDINg NO was the answer. No ...you can do that if you feel comfortable we are all open and friendly here, he was told. Not a double life at all !!!
Then Mr DF'd does the same and Lo and Behold ........Criticism from here to eternity !!!! How dare DF'd dare to come here and share his subsersive "DOUBLE LIFE" sentiments.
What was the difference between df'd and the other person ?
In one word df'd DIDNOTSHARETHEGROUPFEELINGSANDWASTHEREFOREATRUEBADDIE
Makesyou htink doesn't it?
( as I said amusing old chap ) -
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R U disfellowshipped 2
by DFshipped inhi people.
i am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold.
i am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization i believe to be in the palm of jesus hand.. i would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.. this board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may i ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their god given right to pursue their goal.
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DFshipped
Hi people
I am a df'd person hoping to return to the fold. I am not critical of the decision to df me nor of the loving organization I believe to be in the palm of Jesus hand.
I would find it most encouraging to hear from others who feel the same and would like to "hold hands" on the way back.
This board is hailed as a supportive respectful place so if you do not fit this description may I ask you to move on and not hinder the participants here in following their God given right to pursue their goal. I for one would appreciate it.
Thanks all.
PS Feel free to email me.