WonderingStar
You will find no one here who will not welcome you to discuss your views.
I have found the people here to be very tolerant and open to different views.
With one exception to the rule.
Supporting the WBTS ( even if you sincerely believe it ) is not allowed , that is viewed as abuse of free thinking and speech.
Do that and you will be ridiculed and questioned.
I look forward to an email from you.
DFshipped
JoinedPosts by DFshipped
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38
Am I welcome here?
by WanderingStar ini am currently df'd but seriously considering returning to the meetings with a view to reinstatement.
i am looking for honest, open minded discussion.
if i offend you all by being here, please let me know and i wont come back again.. thanks for reading this!
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DFshipped
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58
Questions for DFShipped...
by LDH inhi, dfs.. first of all, let me say it is not necessary to label yourself on this board, or anywhere on the internet for that matter.. so many of us have family members that are df'd, it really doesn't hold much water round here.
i did have some questions for you though, which of course you don't have to answer.. 1. why were you disfellowshipped?
(pls.
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DFshipped
Thanks for the reply
LDH started this thread by saying I do not need to label myself.
Should yo ulabel me a company man ? mmm
You ask why I come here? I come here to express my thoughts feelings and opinions. .........LIKE YOU AND MOST OTHERS HERE.
I didnt realize that the only views that would be accepted here without criticism was those that opposed the WBTS.
The hypocrisy that so many here blame those in the organization for, appears resident here more than ever.
This board is hailed as a wonderful place for open minded tolerant people who enjoy open discussion.
Am I not allowed to be impressed with the WBTS ?
Am not allowed to freely express my deep love for the Organization?
I'm sorry I thought this was a place to express and defend my opinions. Yet I get attacked by most ( not all ) when I defend my point of view.
I'm afraid this board has adopted a policy of : You can say what you like as ling it doesnt support the WBTS . If one does that it is an abuse of free tolerant speech that we so loudly advertise.
It seems to me the more different you want to be the more you are the same.
I came here to express my views. You all do the same.
You criticize the WBTS and feel you have the right to do it.
I support the WBTS and you label me a company man, and accuse me of wanting to convert apostates.
Me thinks there are double standards among some here !!! -
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Questions for DFShipped...
by LDH inhi, dfs.. first of all, let me say it is not necessary to label yourself on this board, or anywhere on the internet for that matter.. so many of us have family members that are df'd, it really doesn't hold much water round here.
i did have some questions for you though, which of course you don't have to answer.. 1. why were you disfellowshipped?
(pls.
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DFshipped
LDH
Not so fast girl.
I asked you to show me a quote from the WBTS condoning or supporting the act of voting. ( presumably in a political sense as you mentioned Malawi )
You implied that the wbts has changed their view point.
Im not sure why you quoted the wt 99 qfr. It sort of contradicts what you had said.
Did you notice that it quoted and re-iterated the comments from the 1950 WT. It was partly due to that very 1950 WT that the Malawian brothers made there decisions.
But let me shed mpre light on what happened in Malawi. Were the witnesses persecuted there for not voting ? NO.
They were persecuted for not buying and carrying a political Party card identifying themselves as memebers of the one and only political party of the country. What a fine example of neutrality. And the 99 wt does not in anyway condone political voting, it re-emphasizes and re-iterates and repeats its direction which is now more than 50 years old. It is a matter of conscience. Anyone ( JW or other ) who considers themselves neutral would not take sides in the political arena. It would be a contradiction in terms.
I was in SA during the 1st democratic election in that counrty. Many of our bro's and sis's were forcibly taken to the voting polls and they did exactly as described in the 99wt. They went inside and ignored or dmaged the ballot. ( some may have voted and as the wt said it is between them and their creator.When I left school at age 17 I was drafted into the military. The WT had shown that it was important to remain neutral in support of the scriptures. I refused military service and was jailed for 15 months.
I am not slightly sorry. My conscience dicated and I obeyed.Let me say without fear of contradiction : Visit Malawi now and by the far the vast majority of the Witnesses persecuted in Malawi and Mozambique and their families are happy to have been imprisoned for the truth as Jesus had predicted. And the survivin gfamily of those killed rejoice in th eknowledge that Jehovah will resurected obedient servants.
So LDH I think you may have missed the message in the 99WT
Instead of eating my hat,
I TAKE MY HAT OFF TO THE WONDERFUL 50 YEAR ( AT LEAST ) RECORD OF CONSISTENCY OF TEACHING EXPRESSED BY THE WBTS. -
40
R U DFshipped?
by DFshipped ini am a dfshipped person who is working towards reinstatement.. i would like to meet anyone else who also would like to return.. i really would prefer not to meet people who want to criticize my desire to return.
i would like to enjoy and offer encouragemnt to others like me.
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DFshipped
Aw man I didnt mean to get under anyones skin. Ive had two lovely email from people who are supportive of my desire an dfeel the same way. Tha is why I posted here. But let me address some of the comments from you guys.
I appreciate your concern.
Firstly let me say that when I first came here I asked what the purpose of this DB is. and was told it is a PUBLIC forum in which people can come and air their views.
Waiting
I id'd myself as df'd to avoid what you accuse me of. Talking to witnesses. If you are still "technically" part of the organizaion and choose to communicate with me I have no control over that. No where did I invite active witnesses to associate with me.
Amicus and Larc
If I misread you I am sorry.
As I said in another post, and here , I am supportive of the WBTS and of the decision to DF me. I know what I need to do to get back, and I am doing it. I never-theless would enjoy communicating with like minded people. Two of whom I have met on this db.
So I appreciate there is nothing anyone can do to help me at this point but talking to like minded people is encouraging.
You see I have been imprisoned at 17 , beaten up by a priest when I was a 13 yr old kid, and enjoyed bundles of privledges in serving as an Elder, convention and asembly speaker and auxilieary pioneer.
I love the WBTS I love the brotherhood and the truth as expounded by the organization. I love the humility I have seen face to face with "senior" members of the society. I abhor the hypocisy that some individuals display in the name of the truth and how it has hurt genuine truth seekers. I abhor how some have been stumbled by responsible ones entrustd to care for the flock. It hurt me when as an Elder, some fellow Elders disregarded the feelings of widows and orphans and lowly ones.
I have done much soul searching and much research.
Believe me you do not sit in a prison cell for 15 months and not question why you are doing it.
So I respect your decisions, I respect your choices. Please respect mine and let me express them here. This db is hailed as a place to do that.
And I ask you as you have asked me......reconsider your decisions.
The actions of hypocrits and other nasties associated with the organization should not take away the joy open to us all. I think of the apostles words to Jesus " Lord where would we go?"
Take care y'all ( you see Im even talking like a floridian now..y'all) -
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Questions for DFShipped...
by LDH inhi, dfs.. first of all, let me say it is not necessary to label yourself on this board, or anywhere on the internet for that matter.. so many of us have family members that are df'd, it really doesn't hold much water round here.
i did have some questions for you though, which of course you don't have to answer.. 1. why were you disfellowshipped?
(pls.
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DFshipped
Hi Thinker
Thanks for the reply and question.
Two people standing side by side each have long hair. Who is the woman? The thing to do if you are not sure is to list all the identifying marks by which to measure what a woman is. The one with the overwhelming number of "woman" features is most likely the woman.
Long hair alone does not make the man a woman.
So put all religeons side by side ...take the bibles measure of the true religeon. One carries 99% of them the rest carry hardly any and in fact carry more signs of being false than of being true. This will identify without doubt the true organization.Happy
I'm happy you replied. hey I'm always happy to be noticed....doesnt happen often LOL
To answer your question : Yes. Miriam spoke out against Jehovahs imperfect, sometimes weka leadership and she was forcibly shunned by being struck with Leprosy and sent outside the camp. Jehovah led the way in showing that "shunning" is sometimes his way of discipline.LDH
I am truly stunned. And I am not being facetious. Since when are we or anyone else able to vote with a clean conscience ?? If you can quote one published comment by the wtbs condoning this I will..um I will eat my hat.
My father was used by the society to smuggle literature to the bro's in Mozambique when the work was banned, so I have 1st hand experience in seeingt what those brothers lived through. As a kid I used to accompany him on those very exciting adventures accross the border.
No wonder I grew up to be a scoundrel.
( PS I also ended up in prison for the truth , but not for smuggling ) -
38
Am I welcome here?
by WanderingStar ini am currently df'd but seriously considering returning to the meetings with a view to reinstatement.
i am looking for honest, open minded discussion.
if i offend you all by being here, please let me know and i wont come back again.. thanks for reading this!
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DFshipped
Hey Nellie
Thats a good question.
When I arrived here at first I was't sure who were posting, but realized that there were som honest hearted non-witnesses and even some df'd ones who are sincere about going back
So to answer your question ( and hopefully satisfy that morbid curiosity LOL )
I'm not sure at this stage. I think I have made some interesting friends who email me, and we have some constructive discussions. Ofcourse there are some pretty volatile fellows here so I may be hounded out of town. LOL
In any event My 1st Post asked what this board is all about and who posts here ......I was told by many that these are all non-judgmental open minded people. And for the most part I have seen that. But as you can see there are some pretty un-open , judgemental people too.
I started posting ( one or 2 posts only) under a different nick name , but thought in all fairness I should Id myself as a df'd person
and allow people to choose to talk to me or not. I have never implied anything other than my desire to get back and my support for the Org.
So in a nutshell
You asked will you be good enough to talk to ?
Like you I will select who I would like to talk to and who not to. If for example I reply to someone I respect and others read it or choose to reply I may or may not respond to them. Like everyone here I will continue to use my own judgement and would like that to be respected by all these open and honest people. Some people I will ignore ...others I will not.
Does that sound fair? -
38
Am I welcome here?
by WanderingStar ini am currently df'd but seriously considering returning to the meetings with a view to reinstatement.
i am looking for honest, open minded discussion.
if i offend you all by being here, please let me know and i wont come back again.. thanks for reading this!
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DFshipped
W'Star
PS to my last reply.
I also want to just say that I applaud your courage in stating here that you are considering going to back to meetings.
You will need that courage because it may not be easy at first, but it gets a bit easier after a while and it will help you not to forget the benefits of both the association that you will see being enjoyed, and the instruction we recieve there.
Go for it !! -
38
Am I welcome here?
by WanderingStar ini am currently df'd but seriously considering returning to the meetings with a view to reinstatement.
i am looking for honest, open minded discussion.
if i offend you all by being here, please let me know and i wont come back again.. thanks for reading this!
-
-
DFshipped
Dear wandering
You can see from the first few replies that some people here will be peaceful and open minded. You also see from some of the later replies ( to me ) that there also some who do not share that sentiment. Beware of the bitterness and do not be dissapointed by it. Bitterness and resentment is destructive.
So I look forward to communicating with you.
My suggestion is that you try to avoid any posts that appear to be provoking futile argument.
Take care -
40
R U DFshipped?
by DFshipped ini am a dfshipped person who is working towards reinstatement.. i would like to meet anyone else who also would like to return.. i really would prefer not to meet people who want to criticize my desire to return.
i would like to enjoy and offer encouragemnt to others like me.
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DFshipped
Larc
I'm not sure of your motive for replying here. This a "make new friends " forum. Your reply was less than friendly.
I am in the process of returning. You may not be aware of this but returning does not happen overnight. And yes sometimes things can
" stand in the way " these could be personal and not open to discussion here.It would be nice to hear from anyone else who shares my feelings.
I've had one email already and that is encouraging.
I look forward to hearing from you. -
58
Questions for DFShipped...
by LDH inhi, dfs.. first of all, let me say it is not necessary to label yourself on this board, or anywhere on the internet for that matter.. so many of us have family members that are df'd, it really doesn't hold much water round here.
i did have some questions for you though, which of course you don't have to answer.. 1. why were you disfellowshipped?
(pls.
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DFshipped
Hi Lisa
Thanks for the reply. The reason I "label" myself is out of respect to those who would prefer not to be unwittingly drawn into a conversation with a df'd person, somthing they may not otherwise want to do.
I was df'd for engaging in something clearly condemned by the bible, my actions albeit of a short period of time revealed apparent unrepentance. At the time I was ashamed of what I had done, I felt I was repentant but chose not to argue the matter, as I also felt the discipline would not kill me if I accepted it in the spirit of Heb12
I have not engaged in that practice for over 14 months. It was not something that would raise eyebrows by worldly standards but is never-the-less unscriptural.
Yes I did grow up in hte truth. But I was forced to consider my stand when I faced a prison term for my faith. I chose prison.
Nope I do not have good friends out of the truth. I am new to the country and have no friends.
Sometimes I have questioned something printed in th epub's.
My view was this:
Jehovah has a history of dealing with his people through an organization. Sometimes the Kings / Judges/ priest/ apostles erred in their application of the truth. Sometimes they need to be corrected.
HOWEVER here is an example:
High Priest Eli had oversight over the temple. He had tremendous power and influence on how things were conducted there. If I were living there and saw his toleration of wickedness, would I have independantly sought another avenue of worship and another place to sacrifice? Jehovah would not have accepted that. He equired co-operation with his appointed arrangement, and corrected it himself. His corrections were always definite and unambiguous. they were dicisive. So for us today to jump ship over our personal view on some matter which may be supported by a few others would IMHO not be the right decision.
How many of these diagreements actually are of universal importance.
So the menaing of the word "generation" has refined. Does that make any material difference to the admonition to serve Jehovah as if the time were close. A close look at the refined definition actually does not change the overall picture painted by the wtbs for many decades.
That is but on example.
So I have written to the WBTS on occassion and recieved answers that I could live with. The concerns I had were not earth-shattering and in fact one was later corrected by the WTBS ( Not at my prompting but so what ) The faith I have in the ransom, the Kingdom and the resurrection, to name a few are not affected.
How would we have felt if we were disciplined by Paul and later learnt that he at one time was not 100% accurate in his teaching of the circumcision issue ? So what ? The rest of what he said was true. Jehovah later corrected the issue ( via the GB ) and Christianity moved ahead.
Moses, Abraham, King David, and the apostles all had and said things that were not always 100% yet the people who stuck by them retained Jehovahs approval and prospered.
Ok OK I know I've said a lot but I hope that helps explain my view.
Regards
DF'd