Posts by serotonin

40

My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith in

why would an atheist go to church?

to seek out a god?.

no more than a historian seeks out ra or hathor by researching egyptian religions.. those religions are dead now.

serotonin_wraith

You don't know? Why not? Afterall, what's to think about? Morality comes from religion, right? Without that, you would obviously turn evil. There couldn't possibly be another reason to stop you.

Could there?

Edit: Sorry, I can't be bothered with the moral argument again. BTS, we've been over this before. You ended up not being able to respond.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/144503/1.ashx

I can't see any point in repeating myself. I think this is why debating got to be a headache for me. If you're going to act deliberately blind to what I say, keep reading over my previous posts and pretend they're new ones. It's essentially the same thing.

40

My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith in

why would an atheist go to church?

to seek out a god?.

no more than a historian seeks out ra or hathor by researching egyptian religions.. those religions are dead now.

serotonin_wraith

hmike,

I was thinking about going into more detail about this, but there's really no need. It can all be summed up in one word. Japan.

I can elaborate if you like, but I don't think there's any need.

If someone won't help other humans without their faith, that's one thing. Their choice. If they try to cause suffering or let suffering happen without intervening, then they are not truly moral to begin with. If the only reason someone wouldn't hurt others was because he or she thought that would please their god, then they are extremely dangerous people.

BTS,

I only have one question. A yes or no answer is all that is needed.

If you did not believe in a god, would you hurt others?

67

Athiests please answer these questions

by Mrs Smith in

jw
friends

i'm not trying to pick a fight i was just sitting at my desk pondering on some threads on jwd and i would very much like this question answered.. why is it that athiest often (not always) direct their argument for athiesism towards christians?

why not direct your argument towards buddists or muslims or even new-agers?

i mean they also believe in a higher power so why is it that only christains seem to get knocked?

serotonin_wraith

You'll see more Christian ones on this forum because of those who are religious, Christianity is the most popular choice. There are a few Muslim ones because we have a few Muslims. If I started a thread that said Hindus were silly to believe in Krishna, it would soon die out because as far as I'm aware, there are no Hindus here (or at least any who want to debate).

It's about the target audience and Christianity is the dominant religion in my culture, so the one I address more than others.

40

My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith in

why would an atheist go to church?

to seek out a god?.

no more than a historian seeks out ra or hathor by researching egyptian religions.. those religions are dead now.

serotonin_wraith

hmike,

I can see how it could be appealing to look forward to a better afterlife if the current life isn't of a high standard. Even if I were starving in Africa, riddled with disease, most of my family had died and things were unbearable, I may think 'well, this is a bit shit' but I STILL couldn't make myself believe in something, just because it gave me comfort. To me, it's just wishful thinking.

I get the sense that many people 'find God' when they're going through a rough patch. They lose their legs in an accident, their child dies, etc. 'Look at all this suffering' people say, 'I'm looking forward to a time when Jesus steps in and helps us.' I agree when you say better lives on Earth are replacing the need for god belief. That doesn't apply to me, although I cannot be sure of my thoughts if I'd been born in a poorer country.

Apart from America, I think it's right to conclude that the poorer countries have the most believers ( I include other religions here) and the countries better off are more likely to have a more secular outlook.

I do hope this 'new world' created by humans replaces the desire to have a god do it. Religious people can do much good, yet religion isn't needed. We don't need to read 'Love thy neighbour and God will be pleased' in order to go and help Africans build wells. We can do it for the sake of helping our fellow humans. Some religions can even prevent this. The JWs only look after their own because they don't think it is within man's power to solve the world's problems. They believe this so much, they don't even want to try.

40

My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith in

why would an atheist go to church?

to seek out a god?.

no more than a historian seeks out ra or hathor by researching egyptian religions.. those religions are dead now.

serotonin_wraith

You are the one going to churches to expound your philosophy. That is arrogant. That is militant. No that is fanatical. You go in to prey on the sheep. One day you will find a ram there. There are BurnTheShips everywhere. ;-)

Again, atheism is not a philosophy.

Can I ask what's wrong with talking about religion with people who want to talk about it? It's no different to going to a religious forum, explaining my position and chatting with people about it. I take it you don't have a problem when people try to spread the message of Jesus? I don't either by the way, because I can either say 'no thanks' or I can talk about it with them. It's my choice. Why the double standard?

Is it also fanatical to talk with people about who the next president should be, or the best way to eat healthily? Hardly. Religion is just another topic where opinion is different. If people's faith is strong, why be afraid to hear my side? They could show me I'm wrong by giving me their good reasons. Perhaps I'll be converted.

Why does your god need defending from me? Why do you want to shut off the communication between believer and non believer? What are you afraid of? Much of this betrays what I feel is insecurity on your part, although I know in advance you will probably deny this. Someone in a strong position shouldn't be afraid of hearing an opposing view. I'm not.

Yes, ungrateful. Not satisfied. Not with a person, but with the situation.

As for you it is a cold hearless uncaring universe. You are just an accident, remember? You will die, and there will be nothing when the molecules disassociate. Very soon even the memory of you will fade. It will be as if you never existed.

Let's say this is the case. Is it wrong because it doesn't sound very nice? No.

The point is that even in a 'cold heartless universe', here I am with the chance to experience something which may not even exist elsewhere in the universe- life. With all the millions of planets which support no life, this only helps show that I should be grateful (to the situation) to be here at all. My life isn't cold and hard. That's the important thing, not the lifeless universe above our atmosphere.

Perhaps nobody will remember me when I die. Is it wrong because it doesn't sound very nice? No. Much of what you say talks about this. 'Your position must be wrong because it doesn't appeal to me.' Not a good argument. This is about what's real, not about what people want to be real. The slice of life you're living now is what matters, not what some future life will think of you. I hope they'll be off enjoying their life instead of wasting it looking you or me up.

I am. I will be.
What I do in this life will echo in eternity.
That is a LIFE.
Burn

Close. Remove the capital F.

How will the universe get by without knowledge of your existence in the future? I really feel for them. Keep posting, write books, make music. Their lives won't be complete unless they know Burn existed at some point in their past!

40

My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith in

why would an atheist go to church?

to seek out a god?.

no more than a historian seeks out ra or hathor by researching egyptian religions.. those religions are dead now.

serotonin_wraith

Thinking about it, you say life just for life's sake has little value, yet you're happy about living forever. Won't that just be an eternity of low value existence?

40

My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith in

why would an atheist go to church?

to seek out a god?.

no more than a historian seeks out ra or hathor by researching egyptian religions.. those religions are dead now.

serotonin_wraith

I know you don't believe in the teapot etc. Even though they can't be disproven, you still don't believe in them. You can see that it would be crazy. So why say 'well you can't disprove God!'? It's such a bad argument.

Lol militant. Yeah, words which nobody's forced to look at. Very militant.

You're not afraid of death from planet Earth, but I do think you're afraid of ceasing to exist completely.

You can make your own meaning in life. Spirit - no reason to believe you have one.

A Universe without meaning has little value, and life for it's own sake has little value!

Ungrateful.

I am ALIVE. More than you are-because my life will not end

Arrogant.

You are the one that believes we are born simply to die. How can you believe otherwise in a cold uncaring random and meaningless Universe? To assert a deeper meaning is an act of faith.

My meaning is personal and comes from within myself. It's not faith to think I like eating cheese on toast, so why is it faith to know of other ways I want to enjoy this life?

We do die, but not before living. If I did think death was the only point, I'd hardly be trying to sustain a durable future for our species, would I? It's the journey that matters, not the destination.

I wouldn't call any of that luck....
I am here because I needed to be here.

Visions of grandeur and a bloated self ego.

40

My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith in

why would an atheist go to church?

to seek out a god?.

no more than a historian seeks out ra or hathor by researching egyptian religions.. those religions are dead now.

serotonin_wraith

Zico,

I've only been to three so far, (Mormons, Salvation Army and Baptist are quite diverse to start with!) but I will be researching other places of worship. I just have to travel out of my way to reach them as I'm in a more Christian area. The majority of Muslims are peaceful, so I can't see a problem if we get talking about our differences of opinion. Like I said, I'm discussing the issues with PEOPLE WHO WANT TO, not standing up and shouting over their services and forcing my side.

40

My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith in

why would an atheist go to church?

to seek out a god?.

no more than a historian seeks out ra or hathor by researching egyptian religions.. those religions are dead now.

serotonin_wraith

I'll go over the essay in a day or two for you. I'm resisting full on detailed debates online at the moment because I need a rest from it. My post history is full of them anyhow.

You want me to prove a negative. It can't be done. Russel's teapot, the flying spaghetti monster, things like that cannot be disproven either, but that's no support to believing in them.

It isn't my job to pack you up in cotton wool because you're afraid of death. You shouldn't believe things because they make you feel better. If you're poor is it better to fool yourself into thinking you're rich, or to deal with the problem of making ends meet? As comforting as the lie would be, it's not a reasonable position to hold.

You seem to have a very negative view of this life. Why can't you find joy, peace, fulfillment etc here on planet Earth, instead of waiting for it in some future afterlife there's no reason to believe in? You said before that you wouldn't like it if we were born simply to die. That's a horrible way to look at things. We're born so that we may live. So live. You're damn lucky to be here in the first place. It amazes me that there had to be a CONTINUOUS chain of life stretching back over BILLIONS of years on a planet where 99% of all species have gone extinct and countless sperm and eggs don't get to create life so that you could be here now, complaining that if you don't get to live forever, your life is pretty much pointless.

40

My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith in

why would an atheist go to church?

to seek out a god?.

no more than a historian seeks out ra or hathor by researching egyptian religions.. those religions are dead now.

serotonin_wraith

To hold a reasonable position, one needs good reasons.

I have yet to hear one.

serotonin_wraith

Posts by serotonin_wraith