why are jws so afraid of apostates?
their view of apostates seems to be out of the realm of the ordinary, the natural.
its as if the words of apostates are supernatual or spiritistic as if apostates are some kind of jedi knights who can slightly wave their hands or twitch their eyes and bring one under a spell.
Magnum-What’s so powerful about the words of those who oppose certain or all parts of JWdom?
Magnum-They know that the words of many (most?) apostates are clear, simple, factual, logical, & revealing.
I believe you just answered your own question.
d4g
i feel like i wasn't allowed to read a lot of books when i was younger, a lot of which i'm discovering are positivly phenomenal.. i was allowed to read edgar allan poe, who remains my all time favorite writer.
but, i've discovered the joys of stephen king, anne rice, joyce carrol oats, neil gaiman, george r. martin, david sedaris... and so so so many more.. i'm currently getting through "the shining" so i can move on to "doctor sleep".
i'm interested to see if anyone else that discovered the many joys of "worldly" literature, jumped immediately into what they weren't allowed to read... and what was your favorite?.
Even as a JW I was a voracious reader, (I am sure to some degree that did not help my cause there ;-)
While good pieces of fiction exist that we can learn from, I lean towards non-fiction of many different flavors. Physics, biology, psychology, history, sociology, economics, politics, etc.
Currently reading a great book on psychology on the NYT best seller list, Thinking Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman. This one really is taking some time to get through, especially with much of the required reading I am trying to get this semester for school. Looking forward to May.
d4g
1. an ideologue is only interested in their own view of the world to the exclusion of fresh ideas or counter arguments.. 2. an ideologue is never satisfied with the personal opinions of others because they want to convert others to their own opinions.
3. an ideologue cannot compromise because everything is black and white.
if you continue to disagree they must label you as an enemy.
The system they adhere to is certainly idealological. The realization of this forced me out in late 2005. I saw the black and white thinking as logically flawed and not in harmony with reality.
d4g
one thing i have learned over the years is there is a clear, distinct purpose to everything the wts does.
everything is done to accomplish a defined purpose.. did they really print millions of new bibles just to be more accurate?
after decades of toughting how much better the nwt was than any other bible?.
This is not about money. In the end, the lose money on printing, thus, why they are closing printing factilties, reducing magazine production, and so forth. It is surely not about building "enthusiasm", as that wanes quickly. It is about long term preservation however, and that is the reason for the investment.
I have not read it, do not own it, (or any bible anymore), but I am aware the text in many areas has been made somewhat more ambiguous. This buys them latitute to change doctrine to suit them, (and help preserve them), in the long run. Any other benefit is secondary to this purpose.
d4g
galileo is said to have uttered, or probably muttered these words in front of the inquisition after supposedly having reacanted his teaching that the solar system is heliocentric, as his predecessors kepler and copernicus had worked out.
(and a guy in 3rd century b.c greece !).
why was galileo unable to go back to his belief held by him in his youth, and nearly all people in christendom, that the earth was at the centre of the solar system and all the planets revolved around it ?.
Band On The Run-Do you think it is "willful" when people have no access to other sources of information?
It is not exactly either willfill or not. It is mostly fear of having their worldview found to be false. Unfornately, this is a very human response.
d4g
i did not know anything about ttatt while attending the meetings.. .
ttatt=the truth about the truth..
Old Goat-
I really appreciated your perspective.
d4g
i did not know anything about ttatt while attending the meetings.. .
ttatt=the truth about the truth..
LisaRose-Then something happened to cause me to have what my (now) husband calls a BGO, a brilliant glimpse of the obvious, it just hit me that they had no more idea about anything than any other religion.
I actually did have a similar experience before I left. I just could not see it through all at once to motivate myself to leave right then and there. I was never the same after that day however, and I stopped attending within 6 months.
d4g
i did not know anything about ttatt while attending the meetings.. .
ttatt=the truth about the truth..
I knew nothing at all. I did not even consider researching anything until about 3 months after I left completely. I left because I could tell something was very wrong, (personal bad experiences have a way of doing that), but could not put my finger on it.
Only after getting a much clearer head after my departure could I begin to see it was time to closely examine what I believed.
d4g
its been a while since i spoke up.
after a lot of 'tactful' questioning, i have come under the conclusion that witnessing ttatt with dubs will never work.
there is nothing called reasoning with them.
In order to be effective, "Reverse witnessing" needs to take place under a few guidelines:
1. Be empathetic and respectful.
2. Do not discuss doctrine. Keep things on a human level. Doctrinal discussions guarantee a closed mind.
3. Do not expect immediate results. Do expect at least some fallout at first, and do not overreact to this.
4. Know when to back off. This is really an art.
5. Be very selective in whom you decide to speak to.
although i have been out for 8+ years, my recent experiences with this have taught me quite a bit.
i believe most here would claim this is what mind controlled people do when they are in contact with a known "former" believer, so i think some deeper understnding of what is really going on is in order.. i always asked why is the "mind control" so effective and how do the organizations that intiate it, learn how to?
i never really could find a satisfactory answer.
only me -I believe it's the people behind the GB that are the ones who know the techniques and are implementing them using the GB. I think the GB know it is not the truth but they are controlled by someone else. Just my thoughts, no proof, but it makes sense to me.
I understand that, and this is where I have come to understand it is just not that simple. Too many questions actually go unanswered with that view. For starters, it pretty much makes most of what Ray Franz wrote about in CoC regarding the nature of the GB untrue. Since I have had personal exchanges with him when he was still alive, I trust what he says. This is why we see a common recurring theme on these boards surrounding the issue "does the GB really believe?". That fact is, basically, yes they do, as do the R&F.
Secondly, when several lines of evidence are considered it is the only answer that meets all of the criteria. This is beyond the scope of what can be written about in a few paragraphs on a message board, but the more someone understands about our own psychological makup, social interactions, history, etc., the better we can see how this can happen. In short, no one can accept their life is a big lie that easily. The bigger the lie, the harder it is to accept that change needs to take place, and proportionally, the more committed one becomes to that lie.
d4g
