my wife is a jw, and is teaching our eight year old daughter jw beliefs.
i am trying to teach her about evolution and critical thinking skills.
here is a conversation we had today (as best i can remember it):daughter: "why do bad things happen?
Great post. My very first "doubts" came about the time I was 8, asking probing, (but different), questions of my JW parent at that age.
Unfortunately, I had no reliable non-JW sounding board to ask the same questions of, and it took another 24 years to leave after that. You did a great job in helping her to develop her critical thinking skills.
bruce malone, an outstanding scientist has absolute scientific proof that evolution is not scientific!.
bruce, a leading researcher for dow chemical for 30 years; he is one of the top 100 inventors eighteen of his inventions raised millions of dollars; and has a b.s.
degree in chemical engineering.
The level of gullibility and lack of train of thought it would take to believe such hubris is all you need to know about the source of this information.
Some people never learn how to think critically, in or out of a high control religion.
My more cynical side says some people are just simply incapable of critical thought.
d4g
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2015/apr/14/british-christianity-trouble-religion-comeback .
the british have lost faith in religion much faster and more completely than they have lost faith in god.
the most recent survey to show this comes from win/gallup, which found that britain appeared one of the most irreligious countries on earth, with only 30% calling themselves religious.
Even if Christianity is a myth there still a great value in the whole god, guns and country, get married , have three children American model is much better for a sustainable society.
First off, I am an American.
Barbara posted this to highlight a point about the UK moving away from being a religious society. It is for the better, quite obviously.
Europe's current economic issues have nothing to do with their secularism. This is a false dichotomy and a logical fallacy.
I will start by saying that basing a society on myth, (read non-reality), is no way to have a long term sustainable future. America is slowly heading in that direction, unless the secular majority has a true majority say on the issues that face the US.
d4g
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2015/apr/14/british-christianity-trouble-religion-comeback .
the british have lost faith in religion much faster and more completely than they have lost faith in god.
the most recent survey to show this comes from win/gallup, which found that britain appeared one of the most irreligious countries on earth, with only 30% calling themselves religious.
Cofty - One day America will be the same but not for a long time yet I suspect.
Much of America actually is. The problem is that the structure of our government, (particularly the legislative branch), does not make it easy for the secular majority to have true majority say in matters. We tend to make up for it with good universities and at least a handful of, (fairly), progressive large cities.
We are hamstrung by a fundamentalist, anti-science, anti-rational, minority here.
d4g
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2015/apr/14/british-christianity-trouble-religion-comeback .
the british have lost faith in religion much faster and more completely than they have lost faith in god.
the most recent survey to show this comes from win/gallup, which found that britain appeared one of the most irreligious countries on earth, with only 30% calling themselves religious.
Insightful read, Barbara...
I would say that within the JW faith, it is transitioning from the counter-cultural to the cultural. I also think this is why it is that much more difficult to reach JWs with logical arguments. Most are in it for the social aspects, (like all other mainstream religions), and they just feel its right. No thinking required.
This was not always the case, (certainly not the case 30+ years ago), where at least pseudo-logical discussions were commonplace both among the JWs, and between the JWs and their potential converts.
I completely agree with the comment about the US constitution, and the way it is revered and treated as sacred here. I may be in the minority among Americans on this one, but I believe it is the core reason why it is difficult to win court cases against religious organizations, such as the Conti case.
Most people lean towards how they "feel" or intuit about things, and do not use proper rational process, as first instinct.
d4g
http://www.revealnews.org/article/california-court-guts-child-abuse-ruling-against-jehovahs-witnesses/.
california court guts child abuse ruling against jehovahs witnesses.
topics: religion / religion and government .
Yep. I stand corrected on this. This is not a good verdict by almost any means, (for now). The appellate court fell into line with currently accepted law, and once again chose not to impose so called "unnecessary" restrictions on a religious group. Typical abuse of first amendment "rights" in America. Maybe a more progressive country could help a bit here???
Longer term, social evolution will have its way.
d4g
i saw this coming since my mother-in-law's funeral .... the congregation's "love-bombing" over my wife had its impact.
i watched her drawing closer and closer to her friends in the congregation.
then she decided she would attend the memorial.
Tough one.
Humans are social creatures, and likely the congregation is her social outlet. That would explain the "doesn't care and wants to be back", attitude.
The fact is, most people do not approach either their beliefs or how they choose or choose not to practice them logically, as a first instinct. JWs are really no different in this approach. Her first instinct is to have social surroundings, and she feels the congregation gives her that.
Feeling type personalities are almost doomed to choose how they feel with respect to the social aspect, over logical argument. Thinking types fair a little better. I would still estimate maybe only 20% of those that actually quit attending actually perform the proper analytical steps to allow then to overcome whatever existential fears they are experiencing by no longer attending, be it social or otherwise.
Sadly, many are potential targets to go back because of this, even if they are out for years, or even decades, (I have seen this firsthand).
d4g
i read here regularly and although i haven't joined in, i really appreciate all the wonderful contributions from those who are willing to share their experiences.... .
i was a convert.
i won't go into the whole history ( perhaps another day) - my story could easily be recognised in the small town where i live, with my husband.. so, we stopped going to the meetings around a period of time when we were going through severe emotional difficulties - at that point, we needed unconditional family love - the hectic, forced jw dinner parties and social occasions gave no real comfort.
Welcome!
Your story is not unusual in the least. Many, many folks find the "love" of the "friends" is neither lovely nor friendly. Not that they are bad people in any sense, just simply because no one can be truly worthwhile to call a "friend", when they cannot even be their real selves. It is quite painful to learn, especially later in life. Keep in mind, we were not our real selves either while we were "in".
Find your real self first, and real friends will follow.
d4g
.
a woman has been shot dead by a 2-year-old in a wal-mart store in idaho.. .
the 29-year-old was shopping with four children in the store in hayden, when the two-year-old reached into her handbag and fired the weapon, shooting her dead.. initial reports suggested the woman was the boy's mother, but the police have said that this is as yet unclear how they are related.. source; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/toddler-accidentally-shoots-woman-in-idaho-walmart-9950847.html.
i've nothing to add to my past comments on americas psychotic relationship with guns.
Don't expect a country founded by Puritans, and that has a first and second constitutional amendment based on 18th century context, to understand the importance of statistical logic.
d4g
bodies of elders around the world will soon (tm) receive a nicely worded letter from the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses, telling them that local elders are now responsible for ensuring that no perverts are allowed to be alone with any children on any kind of witness business, otherwise, the boe will be accountable to the courts - not the org!.
however, if the elders are aware that bro.
& sister oblivious sometimes ask bro.
This will change policy, even if not immediately.
The legal precedent has at least been set for other cases like it, to come forward.
This is a marathon, not a sprint. Social evolution takes time.
d4g
