Article in The Guardian - Faith no more: how the British are losing their religion. Mentions JWs

by AndersonsInfo 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • AndersonsInfo
    AndersonsInfo

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2015/apr/14/british-christianity-trouble-religion-comeback

    The British have lost faith in religion much faster and more completely than they have lost faith in God. The most recent survey to show this comes from Win/Gallup, which found that Britain appeared one of the most irreligious countries on earth, with only 30% calling themselves “religious”. On the other hand, only 13% said they were atheist – compare this with the Chinese figure of around 60%. It may be that the English, especially, regard atheism as a kind of religion, or at least a manifestation of an unhealthy interest in religious questions. But I think that the explanation is more complex. British Christianity is in trouble because Britain itself is disappearing.

    Two-thirds of global population have a faith but in UK 30% of people are religious compared with more than 90% in countries such as Thailand

    Immigrant religion is still thriving here, whether it is Christian or Muslim. But that is because it has an entirely different relationship to the surrounding culture. Religion comes in at least two sorts: cultural and counter-cultural. The second kind is all about belief. People who are religious in a counter-cultural way know what they believe, and could argue it out with people who disagree. This kind can be extremely strong, and it also draws strength from being in a minority. Someone whose beliefs, and still more clothes or habits cuts them off from wider society can often find their identity intensified and their belief more fervent as a result. Think of the fervour of Jehovah’s Witnesses, ultra-orthodox Jews, or Hare Krishnas in our own society and the steadfastness under persecution of minorities like the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan and Iran.


    The second sort is not about conscious belief at all, but about assumptions: the things that everybody knows are true without ever needing to think about them. The American worship of their own constitution is another excellent example. You’d have to be a very strange American indeed to doubt that this was the most important document in political history and the best possible guidance for human life and society. The fact that this belief is quite hard to justify rationally doesn’t diminish its strength at all.

    For the past two or three hundred years, at least since the civil war, most British Christianity has been like that. Then, in the last 50 years, it fell off a cliff. In the last 30 years alone attendance at mainstream churches has just about halved. The way this has happened is also important: adults did not stop going to church, but they failed to transmit the habit to their children and now they are dying out. The culture has changed and the Christianity which was so deeply rooted in the old culture has had its roots torn up.

    Seventy years ago people in England knew that this was a Christian country, and that really bad people went to hell while good ones went to heaven. Now they know that Christianity is as old-fashioned as empire and that religion is a false source of authority. This has nothing to do with intellectual argument. The intellectual challenge to Christian belief has not advanced an inch since around 1900. What has changed, at least in Europe, is the feeling that it all makes sense.

    The prosperous but increasingly powerless states of western Europe may have been uniquely vulnerable to this kind of secularisation. Churches no longer supply the social services that used to keep them going – a partial exception is faith schools in England. At the same time, the narrative of Christian nations within a Christian Europe was underpinnned by a sense of national and continental superiority. Two world wars, the end of empire, and the occupation of the continent by the US and Russia stopped that looking like common sense.

    What’s interesting now is whether religion will return. Counter-cultural religions will no doubt thrive. But it seems to be incredibly difficult to make the transition between cultural and countercultural forms. Institutionally, the Church of England is set up to be entirely embedded in the nation around it, from the parish system all the way up to the coronation service. The idea that it could somehow reinvent itself as a religion for outsiders and the marginal may be profoundly Christian, but it is sociologically incredible. The God that the English still more or less believe in is less and less likely to be found in churches, or at least in church services.

  • done4good
    done4good

    Insightful read, Barbara...

    I would say that within the JW faith, it is transitioning from the counter-cultural to the cultural. I also think this is why it is that much more difficult to reach JWs with logical arguments. Most are in it for the social aspects, (like all other mainstream religions), and they just feel its right. No thinking required.

    This was not always the case, (certainly not the case 30+ years ago), where at least pseudo-logical discussions were commonplace both among the JWs, and between the JWs and their potential converts.

    I completely agree with the comment about the US constitution, and the way it is revered and treated as sacred here. I may be in the minority among Americans on this one, but I believe it is the core reason why it is difficult to win court cases against religious organizations, such as the Conti case.

    Most people lean towards how they "feel" or intuit about things, and do not use proper rational process, as first instinct.

    d4g

  • cofty
    cofty

    Secularism has made huge inroads in British culture in my lifetime.

    It is probably more socially awkward to say you are religious than otherwise.

    One day America will be the same but not for a long time yet I suspect.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Great news. I put it down to the informative media which I really miss. So many educational programmes shown on the BBC and inspiring science and natural history programmes that you tend to take for granted in the UK but realize how unique they were when you have left.

    I don't think many North Americans realize quite how secular the UK is. There is still a lot of 'tradition' intertwined with the monarchy that includes religious ceremony but few actually attend regular church services and even fewer genuinely believe. It tends to be the old who go to church - a generation that will disappear.

    The UK view of the US is typically that they are a bunch of scary fundamentalists, not much different than the countries that worship different gods.

    The most telling thing was years ago when Blair was in power despite being religious. I say 'despite' because he refused to answer questions on Paxman / NewsNight about whether his belief in god helped him make decisions because he knew that a UK politician saying the G word makes them practically unelectable.

    A huge contrast with the US where God apparently helps people win elections, win tennis matches, win awards and basically do anything and everything.

    Sadly there are some cultures in the UK where zealot religious types are still thriving which is Islam. That creepy crawly needs to be stomped on a bit more IMO and not given so much exemptions from the rules.

  • done4good
    done4good

    Cofty - One day America will be the same but not for a long time yet I suspect.

    Much of America actually is. The problem is that the structure of our government, (particularly the legislative branch), does not make it easy for the secular majority to have true majority say in matters. We tend to make up for it with good universities and at least a handful of, (fairly), progressive large cities.

    We are hamstrung by a fundamentalist, anti-science, anti-rational, minority here.

    d4g

  • Clambake
    Clambake

    I just love enlightened Europeans think they are , while they breed themselves out of existence as their economies collapse.

    Even if Christianity is a myth there still a great value in the whole god, guns and country, get married , have three children American model is much better for a sustainable society.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Guns = good for sustainable society?!?!

    LOL - how's that working out for you?

    Everyone living happily together with Jesus and bullets ...

  • done4good
    done4good

    Even if Christianity is a myth there still a great value in the whole god, guns and country, get married , have three children American model is much better for a sustainable society.


    First off, I am an American.

    Barbara posted this to highlight a point about the UK moving away from being a religious society. It is for the better, quite obviously.

    Europe's current economic issues have nothing to do with their secularism. This is a false dichotomy and a logical fallacy.

    I will start by saying that basing a society on myth, (read non-reality), is no way to have a long term sustainable future. America is slowly heading in that direction, unless the secular majority has a true majority say on the issues that face the US.

    d4g

  • snugglebunny
    snugglebunny

    There is an upside to living in a non-religious secular society such as we have in the UK. There's much less vengeance involved when it comes to dealing with society's dissidents. We've grown out of the nasty habit of state-sponsored murder of our own citizens. You can be gay without a whole boatload of Christian fundies arriving en-masse to try and keep their outdated attitudes alive and well.

    And yes...if you announce to your friends that you're a Christian they will indeed nod politely but you'll probably find yourself quietly dropped from their dinner-party list of amusing guests...

  • Clambake
    Clambake

    Secularism and liberalism go hand in go. Liberalism leads to a sense of entitlement and a greater strain on social programs. Strains on social programs lead to a decrease in productivity. Decreases in productivity means jobs go away or governments just go broke. Europe got fat and lazy.

    It might seem kind of stupid to see an American working for 7.75 at Walmart in Mississippi talking about the danger of unions but it is that right wing fox news nascar mentality NRA god guns and jesus that have given the US a competitive edge in the world economy. Plus the US hasn’t aborted an entire generation of young people.

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