Posts by done4good

46

The slow trickle has become a steady stream!

by freddo in

jw
friends

in the last few weeks it seems that instead of one or two new posters a week we seem to be getting several every day.

many seem to be long time jw's who are troubled by the path of the organisation.

this is really encouraging to those of us who have been here sometime.. welcome!

done4good

Although mostly anecdotal, it certainly does appear a tipping point has been reached. Much of what I am hearing, (and I am quite far removed from the JW scene, so my data on this is very limited, admittedly), has finally brought me to a point where I no longer trust the numbers the society is printing. I have held off a long time from saying that, however I now would say that they are spinning the numbers positive anyway possible. They have a lot of latitude to do so, since the way they account for members is far from any standard any other religion uses. For example, since no one really knows if by "publishers" the WTS refers to baptized only, or unbaptized publishers as well, this could easily be an area they adjust behind the scenes and no one would be the wiser. There are many other "tweaks" they can perform to the accounting process that would also allow them to spin things positive for a while.

It seems most "normal" JWs left are extremely apathetic, or awake but leading double lives for family reasons. Many of the latter group are too scared of the consequences, (and there are consequences), to come forward openly. I think this is a much larger group than most people realize.

As far as the apathetic go, this is a very large group that can be pushed mentally out given sufficient reason. This was me for several years before I left, so I know first hand apathy is almost always the first step to becoming mentally free for most. I know a former congregation I attended has lost about 33% of its membership over the last 20 years, and mostly only the very apathetic, (apart from a few kooks, I am sure), are left.

That only leaves the mentally/emotionally unstable left. Long term, this brain drain will kill the WTS. The pace of decline is accelerating rapidly. This is consistent with a critical mass or tipping point being reached. Time will tell how long it takes.

d4g

17

Science Alert Quiz

by cofty in

take the test fellow hominids.... i got 7/7.

done4good

7/7

All of the answers were indeed false, as all statements are examples of common misconceptions of evolution. These are basic practical examples, that demonstrate that someone understands the basics of how evolution works. If anyone scored less than 7/7, there is some basic principle that is likely not understood.

d4g

17

Do you ever contact those who shun you?

by Xanthippe in

do you ever test the water and see if your relatives or friends still feel the same way?

i don't have mobile phone numbers or email addresses for my family because we left a long time ago.

long before facebook.

done4good

I decided to check in today, (didn't take quite a month :-)).

I tried this. It does not work, and is almost guaranteed to cause extreme pain. Look at this way, there are probably a very limited number of people that you want to reach out to. The ones you think are worth it, you think that way because they mean something to you. These are the very ones that are going to hurt you the worst when they decide to shun, simply because you care enough about them. The axiom is as simple as that.

Simon is right. You really have nothing in common with them anymore. It is sad, but it really is their loss.There is no water to test provided they still believe. The belief system itself is toxic, and will force them to passive-aggressively cause you pain. Been there, done that.

d4g

31

The GB know it's all lies and wants to dismantle the WTS ... then what?

by Simon in

so imagine the gb have a sudden attack of honesty and realize "crap, this whole thing is lies - we're not god's spokespeople at all !".

how do you dismantle a religion that has +8 million members in a responsible way?

you can't just publish a watchtower saying "we were wrong" because that would be irresponsible - you need to let people down gently, put people off gradually.

done4good

The WT is much like a person trying to keep the snout of a wild dog closed. The R&F is the wild dog. If they try to truly remove the authoritarian structure, that dog is going to bite them in the ass hard...They won't do it.

The WT would lose at least 50% of its membership if it eliminated JCs, DF, shunning, and various other control mechanisms. The other 50% would slowly lose interest over time. This would be catastrophic for the organization financially. They won't do it. They are preferring to take the path of slowly dying out, albeit unwittingly.

So what will they do? Observing from some distance, I would say they already have reached a tipping point, (if not just short of it). They are in the process of trying to determine a long-term strategy, (something they never had to do; authoritarian regimes rarely do). This is not familiar territory for them, and I believe they will fail at it, ultimately. At a bare minimum, they would need to soberly admit to not having the "truth", to begin with, since true reform only works when reality is faced. The catch is, they really cannot face that reality, as they are true believers, (even of their own bullshit). Belief is all about survival. Belief in their cause is critical to their survival. Without this, they fail. This is an inherent dilemma that has no clear-cut way forward, and will lead to their demise.

It appears the pressures of social evolution are forcing them to make changes without a clear-cut strategy. Too many things about modern society stand in stark contrast to the charlatan nature of a 19th century end-times religious sect. All of their survival efforts to date have been tactical in nature, and are designed to preserve that 19th century dogma. Tactics only work for so long. At some point, a goal oriented strategy needs to be developed, and worked toward. However, any attempt to do this in a meaningful way will have its own adverse consequences, since it means admitting fault, (hence disbelief). Disbelief is anathema to the existence of religion.

Lacking a strategy, they will continue to attempt to exist in a maze of society they are ill-equipped to exist within, and die a slow death, that will accelerate over time. It already is.

d4g

21

10 Years On...

by done4good in

jw
friends

just a note that 10 years ago, (christmas day, 2005), was my last time inside a kh.

a lot has taken place for the better in those 10 years:.

1. met the love of my life and happily married for 9 years, two days ago.. 2. completed a master's degree.. 3. work at senior management level in the it field.. 4. have a savings and retirement, and no debt outside of a mortgage and 1 car loan.. 5. lots of travel to several places that i never would have done as a jw.. 6. contribute to what i believe are meaningful causes.. 7. read, think, and meditate for myself.. 8. have a great extended family i inherited from my wife.. 9. lots of other great stuff, too much to list.. none of this is intended to be boastful.

done4good

Thank you all very much for your kind words of support, they mean much more to me than I can adequately convey here. I really appreciate the opportunity to have contributed something of value to the ex-JW community, no matter how minor it may have been. Our experiences may have all been a bit different, but we all have the same human needs at some level. WT as an institution serves only to deny us of those needs, and dehumanizes us and our loved ones still trapped in.

I promise to stop in from time to time.

Jason

21

10 Years On...

by done4good in

jw
friends

just a note that 10 years ago, (christmas day, 2005), was my last time inside a kh.

a lot has taken place for the better in those 10 years:.

1. met the love of my life and happily married for 9 years, two days ago.. 2. completed a master's degree.. 3. work at senior management level in the it field.. 4. have a savings and retirement, and no debt outside of a mortgage and 1 car loan.. 5. lots of travel to several places that i never would have done as a jw.. 6. contribute to what i believe are meaningful causes.. 7. read, think, and meditate for myself.. 8. have a great extended family i inherited from my wife.. 9. lots of other great stuff, too much to list.. none of this is intended to be boastful.

done4good

Just a note that 10 years ago, (Christmas day, 2005), was my last time inside a KH. A lot has taken place for the better in those 10 years:

1. Met the love of my life and happily married for 9 years, two days ago.

2. Completed a master's degree.

3. Work at senior management level in the IT field.

4. Have a savings and retirement, and no debt outside of a mortgage and 1 car loan.

5. Lots of travel to several places that I never would have done as a JW.

6. Contribute to what I believe are meaningful causes.

7. Read, think, and meditate for myself.

8. Have a great extended family I inherited from my wife.

9. Lots of other great stuff, too much to list.

None of this is intended to be boastful. It is merely a reflection of the positive things in life, and a lesson for any newbie here that life post-WT is worth living, and will only get better for you, if you take advantage of it.

I am going to take a bit of a hiatus from here for a while, since I think 10 years is a good amount of time to have taken advantage of this type of therapy, and benefit from it. Diminishing returns do come into play, and I need to free myself from what can be an addictive pastime.

Thank you all for being here...

Jason

57

Reasons for Stagnation in Growth. AKA YearBook Numbers!

by ttdtt in

so why has the growth flatlined?

why is less time spent in the ministry?

why have aux pios droped by 1/3rd?.

done4good

Just to fix my math, according to the yearbook numbers provided, growth is ~1%, not less than 1%. This is still at or less than population growth.

d4g

45

The story of my exit

by mrsObfuscate in

i have been lurking here for about 6 months, and being the last day of the year, and ready to start the new one afresh, i want to share the story of our exit from the org.

i have found the personal experiences of others of immeasurable value, (and its been a while since a good exit story has been posted) that i hope this can be of benefit to at least someone.. .

my mother became a jehovahs witness when i was about 9 or 10. i remember initially hating all of the new sanctions put on our lives (no birthdays and christmas anymore) but for some reason i soon after joined her in attending the meetings and eventually got baptized at the age of 14. my staunch catholic father converted a couple of years later.

done4good

Wonderful story, MrsObfuscate !

d4g

57

Reasons for Stagnation in Growth. AKA YearBook Numbers!

by ttdtt in

so why has the growth flatlined?

why is less time spent in the ministry?

why have aux pios droped by 1/3rd?.

done4good

Existing in some form well into the future, is a lot different than existing as-is.

The organization is being forced to make changes to survive. These are not progressive reforms, but rather tactical measures to keep the corporation alive, and none of them are good for morale of the R&F. A shell of a corporation may well exist for a very long time, but there is no denying that either a tipping point has been reached, or is rapidly approaching. WT is in a positive feedback loop. These are more commonly known as "vicious cycles", and they usually are not broken, until something catastrophic happens, unless some negative feedback source is introduced. Based on the way WT has proven itself to deal with external pressures, (such as the ARC), I think that is highly unlikely.

As far as the theory that there is still "growth" happening, and how that means all is still good, is concerned, (if the numbers can even be trusted), I make the appeal to statistical trends. A slowing of growth is a sign of weakness. All systems carry a certain level of inertia to allow them to not only grow, but also do so at a certain velocity, if healthy. That velocity has slowed in recent years, and if the stats are accurate for the past year, growth has slowed <1%. If we were economists, (or investors), looking at this type of trend from an economic perspective, we would have a good statistical indicator that the economy was about to head for recession. WT is either at or near a tipping point of decline.

d4g

57

Reasons for Stagnation in Growth. AKA YearBook Numbers!

by ttdtt in

so why has the growth flatlined?

why is less time spent in the ministry?

why have aux pios droped by 1/3rd?.

done4good

To summarize, the information age is killing them slowly, but the pace of the decline is increasing rapidly. This correlates well to the effects of Moore's law, in general.

WT can no longer teach very detailed and esoteric doctrine. It is either too easy to disprove, or current events have rendered it false by now. In response to this, the WT has taken several measures over the last 15-20 years to dummy their doctrine down, and simplify the "work". This has led to widespread apathy among the faithful.

The apathy in turn leads to ignoring the direction of the leadership. This is why JWs now get an education, save for retirement, etc. In response to this, the leadership tries to turn the screws tighter by using the tools of the information age, (such as the website and particularly the streaming broadcasts), to enact greater control, but this fails as well, as the leaders are seen as both uncaring and incompetent in plain sight. This in turn leads to further apathy and disillusionment, and thus a positive feedback loop has developed. Positive feedback loops in nature tend to create unstable systems.

Add to this the child abuse cases, lawsuits, (which they can no longer hide from in the information age), and the constant demands for more money, (yet another positive feedback loop in of itself), and we have a formula for a rapid decline.

d4g