Posts by done4good

15

Just how is JW org doing?

by Half banana in

i started posting on the ex community about five years ago since two of my children have remained under the jw spell.

back then i had little tangible hope of seeing the downfall of the org.

i now see evidence of big cracks forming in their hermetic carapace..

done4good

maksutov - I think it will either die out or go more mainstream eventually, but it will be a long drawn out process, and I don't expect it to seriously dwindle in the near future.

This.

However, I would add that it is difficult to tell what will accelerate the process. The organization appears to be in something of a positive feedback loop at the moment, and if that continues, it will have an effect on how quickly either dying out or mainstreaming takes place. At the moment, I don't see they have a way out of that loop. They need capital to reorganize things to keep their long term finances sustainable, they are pushing for this capital, and doing so unapologetically, using the internet, (and other sources, of course). This is going to ruffle a few feathers if it keeps up.

Secondly, social evolution forces all authoritarian organizations to capitulate to either outcome you mention above. History demonstrates this over and over. The information age itself has caused massive changes in society as a whole, (just look at society's recent acceptance of gay marriage, marijuana legalization, etc.), and while organizations like the WT have previously been better able to isolate themselves from outside influence, it is much more difficult to isolate themselves as such today. Their own significant internet presence even makes that isolation that much more difficult. This is yet another commitment they have made that is almost impossible to back out of, socially or fiscally.

What it will come to in the end, is that if they don't mainstream, they will die out. Social evolution will force this process.

d4g

31

If Women were elders, would it make a difference in the organization?

by John Aquila in

imagine three single sisters who qualified to be appointed as elders in the congregation.

they qualified because they started reaching out in their early teens.

persistently and methodically they worked their way through the ranks by pioneering then becoming a m.s.

done4good

Ok, I will make a serious post now...

Sparrowdown, You are not wrong that the GB would corrupt things no matter who the elders are, however...

WT is a misogynistic organization. Authoritarian organizations like them almost always are. The OP is really pure fantasy, and could never happen, which is precisely why it received a lot of colorful comments, (including mine ). If women were to actually have the ability to be elders, there would be no judicial committees, or anything else that would be the product of authoritarianism, thus why it is not reality.

If you don't believe this, name one authoritarian regime in a modern society run by a woman. I cannot think of any. Authoritarian regimes are not progressive by nature. The tend to be anti-woman, anti-minority, and anti-anyone who might challenge their authority. Sound like the GB now?

d4g

76

OMG, I’m gonna get Old and Die.

by John Aquila in

when it finally clicked,.

and you realized there was no 1914, there was no generation that would see the end of a wicked system, there was no paradise around the corner, .

what went through you mind?.

done4good

Hold Me-Thrill Me - Is this the fruit of evolution? Is this what lurkers should look forward to? Dark days in sad thought with no hope?
I see no benefit to atheism.

I can assure you from my perspective, and that of may other atheists, we don't live in "Dark days in sad thought".

When I was a believer, I did not live my life for some future life. I believed because I really believed, whether I thought it was good or not. I considered what I believed "the Truth". That fact is, a lot of "bad" came with that belief. Self-righteousness, insensitivity towards others, serious personal stress, self-dishonesty, etc. Accepting a falsehood as truth did nothing to improve my quality of life.

Much improvement came after leaving the JW, and I did not become an atheist overnight. It took 5.5 years to come to that conclusion. I basically went from JW to non-denominational Christian, to finding inconsistencies with Christian history, exploring Catholicism, researching more history, science, etc., declaring myself agnostic, because that was the only honest assessment I could make of my belief, to finally coming to terms with accepting the god of the bible was just as much a myth as any Greek or Roman god. It was a matter of intellectual honesty in the end, and nothing could be more liberating.

A life based on fact and reason is a good life. I can stop worrying about making some invisible friend angry, over normal human tendencies, make decisions based on real-world concerns, work to help others within the constraints of real-world parameters, etc. There is no sadness or darkness in any of this.

The only thing that saddens me today is seeing those still trapped in a web of fear, believing in some man made myth of a god who will destroy them for simply failing to live the way it wants them to.

d4g

76

OMG, I’m gonna get Old and Die.

by John Aquila in

when it finally clicked,.

and you realized there was no 1914, there was no generation that would see the end of a wicked system, there was no paradise around the corner, .

what went through you mind?.

done4good

Accepting one's mortality is a natural occurrence, that takes place as one gets older. Unfortunately, JWs are generally very stunted in this area of growth, among others. When one learns that they are not going to cheat death, especially too late in life, I would imagine it would be very disconcerting.

There are all kinds of problems believing one is going to live forever causes along the way though. Not planning properly in terms of education, career, retirement, etc., for one. Becoming insensitive to other people's problems, health, and ultimately death, for another. Missed opportunities all around because of waiting for "the future life", yet another, ad infinitum. I did fine on the education, career, and hopefully retirement parts, and making up for the lost opportunities all the time, but the insensitivity I cannot take back. I can only improve on that moving forward.

I don't think I personally ever really wanted to live forever in that Stepford world. I think this helped to allow me to focus on what I can do now, even while I was still in. It is just multiplied by at least 1000 now. And while I am not ready to die just yet, I have come to accept a long time ago that I will die someday.

d4g

18

August 2015 Awake! FML

by InjusticeSystem in

i'm gonna have to stop reading this shit just for my own sanity and the survival of my computer.

august 2015 awake!.

can we please destroy this box that they keep publishing with some actual facts?

done4good

Not to derail the thread, but...

Oubliette - 'm a little confused by the expression "Albert Einstein’s theory of gravity."

Modern theories of gravitation are generally associated with Isaac Newton, whereas, Einstein is more widely known for his ideas on relativity. Certainly, Einstein's work related to gravity, but to use this expression with its unusual association and not have any explanation for its use just seems odd.

General relativity = special relativity + gravitational theory.

Newtonian physics did not take any relativity of spacetime into consideration, hence was superseded by Einstein's, (and later), Shrodinger's work on the quantum side of things.

d4g

18

Undue influence - other areas in life

by DavidG in

jw
friends

after gradually waking up to ttatt im finding myself with this question:.

since it is so easy to be indoctrinated with jw beliefs, are there other areas in my life where i'm also under influance of other false beliefs?

from the culture i've grown up with, school etc?.

done4good

Yes, of course. Almost everyone is affected by cognitive dissonance at some level, because we become committed to decisions we make in life. The bigger the decision, the more committed we are to it, and the more prone to cognitive dissonance we become.

Proportionally speaking then, chances are anything you are committed to, is something less than your former commitment to WT, so you are probably not far from living in reality. The fact that you are even willing to ask this question so early in your development is a good sign.

d4g

42

The Reason Why Jehovah's Witnesses Will Never Prosper Is The Children

by minimus in

jw
friends

i believe that the religion will remain stagnant due to their achilles heel, the kids, the children, that next generation.. most of them really don't wa t to be in the religion.

the parents may have tried everything within their power to make the kids love jehovah but we all know you can't force someone to love you and you can't make a grown person stay in a relationship or situation if they really don't want to be there..

done4good

Minimus - They are mentally lazy and do not want to pursue challenging their brains.

I don't believe that assessment is a fair one, at least for most. Children instinctively trust what their parents teach them, even if they tend not to like it. Most of us here did not leave until well into adulthood. Unless we were all mentally lazy, that assessment is just oversimplified, and ultimately, wrong.

Cantleave's point is also a valid one. Human beings are social creatures, and if kids manage to stay past adolescence, the social environment provided tends to reinforce their decision to stay. At that point, it usually takes a life changing event to wake someone up.

d4g

31

If Women were elders, would it make a difference in the organization?

by John Aquila in

imagine three single sisters who qualified to be appointed as elders in the congregation.

they qualified because they started reaching out in their early teens.

persistently and methodically they worked their way through the ranks by pioneering then becoming a m.s.

done4good

Oh if only....

23

How big of a problem is apostasy.

by joe134cd in

i often wonder if apostasy could be defined as the "silent problem", as the majority who leave for this reason choose to fade saying nothing.

in all the decades i was a witness i could probably count on 2 hands those who were disfellowshipped for apostasy.i must admit it wasn't until i came on the internet that i fully realise the depth and extent of the problem.

i think of that young girl high school speech that went viral, and you can't tell me all those 300000+ views were all none jws.

done4good

BluesBrother - NB you would not be apathetic if you believed that Armageddon was imminent.

In terms of absolute reality, that is correct. In terms of relative acceptance, I think most JWs "believe" as long as it is convenient to. Apathy is more a form passive-aggression, where actions speak louder than words, (or even conscious thoughts), so while they may consciously "believe" at some level, the apathetic demonstrate disbelief by their actions.

That is still not the same as apostasy, which in practice is a deliberate conscious effort, even if covert. The apathetic would defend the WT in a heartbeat, if held to it. Been there done that on both the giving and receiving end.

d4g

23

How big of a problem is apostasy.

by joe134cd in

i often wonder if apostasy could be defined as the "silent problem", as the majority who leave for this reason choose to fade saying nothing.

in all the decades i was a witness i could probably count on 2 hands those who were disfellowshipped for apostasy.i must admit it wasn't until i came on the internet that i fully realise the depth and extent of the problem.

i think of that young girl high school speech that went viral, and you can't tell me all those 300000+ views were all none jws.

done4good

Steve2 - Apathy is doing a fine job all by itself.

I guess that is somewhat open to interpretation. I don't think that argument goes over well for people wanting their loved ones out. Apathy does not necessarily lead to someone's leaving.

OTOH, there are a hash number of the apathetic class that do eventually leave, (I was apathetic for my last few years in). So apathy does have some precancerous properties from the WTS' perspective for sure.

Apathy also causes others to take notice and wake up.

Just don't expect someone who is apathetic to wake up and leave. More times than not, it does not happen that way, because these folks are often too comfortable as JWs.

d4g