Posts by done4good

12

truth

by Sabin in

jw
friends

i`ve been thinking, a thread was put up about a month ago asking the question " why me?

basically why some of us find out ttatt while others are so blinded, good, sincere people that we love.

well after some consideration i have come to the conclusion that 1) some are in the truth 2) others want truth.

done4good

Vidiot - I grew up valuing facts, evidence, and logic.
The older I got, the more WT ideology seemed in conflict with those things...

Ditto.

I would add that a good reality slap helps though. Many intelligent people in the organization also value these things, however have it a bit too easy, so prefer to stay in their comfort zone, even if it means compromising their otherwise logical nature. A life changing event forces one out this comfort zone automatically, and often becomes the moment when the dissonance is truly resolved.

d4g

45

No the WT Borg is not closing! That's Wild Dreaming!

by DwainBowman in

no the wt borg is not closing!

that's wild dreaming!

they have been changing directions for a while now, and for whatever reasons, what is happening now is a part of that change!

done4good

No, it is not closing, not will it likely anytime soon. However based on very broad based anecdotal evidence, they are clearly having problems, and trying desperately to manage them. Organizations don't stop building and expanding because everything is just fine, especially ones that blindly pride themselves on that growth.

I believe the problems started in earnest a few years ago, (JW.org itself was a turn on a dime out of desperation). Several rather drastic measures have been attempted to reign in costs, and keep revenue flowing. The organization also has been trying to change its image, (of course without any true social reforms). These tactics are likely not working as planned, (they are tactical, read reactionary, not strategic), and the panic button has been pressed. They don't want to do this. There is nothing in it for them other than savings in operating and capital spend. That does not make "The one and only True Religion" look so good, does it?

What is not understood clearly is what broke all of a sudden and why.

d4g

22

are there really 8 million jw's?

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

last circuit assembly there was 700+ present and 1 baptized.. recently there was a foreign language assemble of over 500 and 1 baptized.. in the last 5-10 years i haven't been to one assembly where there has been more than a handful baptized.

at the memorial all i see are the same old faces that have been coming since the flood.. the hall complex i attend has 6 congregation and several groups-there is negative growth.

when you factor in the demographically aging folk and the many who have already passed away, i don't know where they get the 8 million.. i know that most of the growth is from the developing countries, but still i think they are fudging their numbers.

done4good

To add...

Also consider that many/most JWs have children these days. This was not the case before the mid-1990s. The 1-2% growth that is reported is roughly consistent with population growth. No converts here.

Most converts are in underdeveloped countries, (at least where things such as sharia law do not exist), or those with severe social issues.

Any increase in numbers in developed countries is based on the fudging above, children being born and "publishing", and immigrant migration.

d4g

22

are there really 8 million jw's?

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

last circuit assembly there was 700+ present and 1 baptized.. recently there was a foreign language assemble of over 500 and 1 baptized.. in the last 5-10 years i haven't been to one assembly where there has been more than a handful baptized.

at the memorial all i see are the same old faces that have been coming since the flood.. the hall complex i attend has 6 congregation and several groups-there is negative growth.

when you factor in the demographically aging folk and the many who have already passed away, i don't know where they get the 8 million.. i know that most of the growth is from the developing countries, but still i think they are fudging their numbers.

done4good

Since the membership accounting is based on turning in "time", there is lots of room for fudging. This is done from Joe/Jane publisher, all the way to the top.

First of all, consider that members are constantly coerced to actually turn in time. There is a negative social stigma associated with not doing so, in the form of being labeled "irregular", or "inactive". Nobody wants those labels, if they care about their status in the congregation. There is no telling how many individual members turn in time that have zero desire to do so.

Secondly, the organization is not transparent in how it performs the accounting to begin with. What is a "publisher" really? Must they be baptized to be counted? Do they count heads when convenient? There are so many things that can be "adjusted" behind the scenes, that numbers can be spun positive for some time just by changing what is being counted.

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure.

d4g

119

Latest rumor - all WT construction "suspended", except for Warwick

by sir82 in

jw
friends

heard 4th-hand, but from a full-on believer, so not likely to be an "apostate lie":.

apparently, at bethel's morning worship this morning, it was announced that all worldwide wts construction is "suspended" for an indefinite time, except for the new world headquarters at warwick.. also, the "relocation" of remote translating teams is also suspended.. finally, there will be a "worldwide" reduction in bethel personnel.. all this came to me in a non-english language, and,as noted, 4th-hand.

so it is possible something may have been lost in translation and/or in the multiple steps between bethel morning worship & me.. but if true, it would be quite stunning.

done4good

SBF:

Good to see you again!

d4g

15

All these changes in the last five years are mindblowing

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

i can't begin to count all the changes that have happened in the last five years.. i just read they're getting rid of the theocratic ministry school from cedar's blog.. i remember when they released the new theo school book back in 2001. how times have changed.. it's almost scary in a way what's happening.

there's barely any time to adapt to one change before another change comes along.. there's been more changes in the last five years than the previous 100 years.. i feel like there's some grand puppet master pulling his string.. what if the governing body are not really in charge but just give the impression they're in charge.

could there be someone else behind the scenes?.

done4good

The GB are true believers in something that is not based in fact and reason.

WT is an authoritarian organization.

Authoritarian organizations are reactionary.

Authoritarian organizations are authoritarian because their leaders are true believers, and as a result live by ideology, not fact and reason.

When people don't live in a world based in fact and reason, they make bad decisions, (eventually).

At a high level, that is what we are seeing the effects of.

d4g

29

How will many JW's react ?

by Phizzy in

i did not believe i would see the demise of the wt in my lifetime, and maybe i will not, they may be able to ride out their present problems.. but how do you think this will affect the average, loyal, believing jw ?.

usually most things just wash over them, if there is a slight niggle, they use their well-worn way of explaining things to themselves as in "the end is near" or "jehovah knows best" etc etc.

but the huge sea-change in corporate policy that we see unfolding, all construction work stopped, except warwick and maybe their biggest project, chelmsford u.k. huge bethel layoffs, and the lifestyle of the remaining staff reduced to virtual slavery, more bethel closures, spiritual food reduced for the public as well as the r&f, and all of this being the opposite of what they have claimed was evidence of jehovah's blessing ???.

done4good

I seriously doubt they will announce such set back to all JWs.

Maybe not. However, how long could something like that be hidden???

d4g

113

World Wide Construction comes to a Shuddering Halt - Jehovah's Blessing has Evidently been Suspended!

by Slidin Fast in

the chelmsford project in the uk has already come to a halt and every one has been sent home.

the bethel family in london is to be cut by several hundred.

my impression is that most ambitious youngster in the org dream of being involved with the building program.

done4good

There are a few things that can be said for sure, but they are mostly general.

The WT is an authoritarian organization.

Authoritarian organizations, are reactionary by nature.

Many major changes have taken place, (financial structure wise, as well as social), that point to an organization in transition, and has been in earnest, at least since 2012, and some changes several years before that.

WT is under enormous legal and PR pressure on several different fronts. (Child abuse, shunning, blood, charity in question, etc.).

My best guess is something went pop, and something anticipated, (but not strategically planned for), came upon the organization, or they are expecting it to, hence the 180.

Otherwise, the pieces of the puzzle just don't fit without resorting to conspiracies. Conspiracy theories are wrong at least 99% of the time.

Look at the big picture.

d4g

98

My Opinions on whats going on in WT land - Insider Information

by thedepressedsoul in

first off, i'd like to state that i currently have "privileges" in the congregation and volunteer at bethel on and off throughout the year.

that's as much information as i will currently give about myself.. starting off, i think something big is coming in the form of lawsuits and bad pr.

they seem to be batting down the hatches in preparation for something the last few years and even more so the last few months.

done4good

neverendingjourney - If things get dire enough, do they accept having a tax imposed on them and go back to charging for everything, a quarter for digital downloads, a dollar per magazine, etc.?

Cannot happen, unless there is a complete change of business model. Tax-free organizations are dependent on that status to remain in the black. Everything pretty much becomes taxable once that line is crossed, (real estate, capital gains, sales, etc). The society changed to a "donation" basis 25 years ago, kicking and screaming quietly just to avoid that change of status, as it likely would have bankrupted them in a few years. They will not do it now, because they cannot.

It is possible to do however if planned properly, but would require a major sell off of assets, and restructuring.

d4g

35

Watchtower Society: something terribly going on - scenarios

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

if an (aggressive) real estate fund is stopping it's operations directly,.

and if an publishing house is minimize the portfolio,.

and if a member of it's board of directors is telling the costs are higher then the profits,.

done4good

Immediate insolvency type issue? Not likely. Long-term sustainability concerns? Oh, they have those for a certainty. Is the current stop on a dime changes related to that? That would seem a bit extreme. So it is anyone's guess...

Something is up for sure. That something might be something else other than a financial concern altogether. I don't much care for blind speculation, but the pieces don't quite fit on this one, after giving it some thought over the last few days. While the anecdotal evidence points to something financial, I am not so sure that is a given. They would have to have been way off in their forecasting to cancel almost all projects. I will use the same reasoning I did on 9/11 when taxiing on the tarmac in Huston towards the gate on a business trip, when over the PA it was stated, "all connecting flights have been cancelled, as all airports in the USA are shut down, due to the 'incident' in NY...". My first thought was, "That never happened before in the history of aviation, what the hell just happened?". Likewise, the WT never cancelled all major construction before. Something is up, and I don't know that it is just about immediate finances.

I would theorize that something much bigger could be in the works. As Orphan Crow pointed out on another thread, it could be something anticipated, however not necessarily planned for. I would not go as far as an ordered shut down, (at least not internationally), maybe something more localized, but equally upsetting to the R&F, if they were to discover it. Creating a financial issue smokescreen could be just the distraction needed.

I would go as far to say that all of the changes over the last few years might have something to do with this. There is some serious re-branding and re-positioning taking place. Maybe that is not such a coincidence after all.

Time will tell.

d4g