here is a great site in case anyone is interested in acquiring wt property in brooklyn heights.
https://www.watchtowerbrooklynrealestate.com/.
Sir82-Now that's weird.
There's no mention on that site about how potential buyers are doomed to destruction by Jesus H. Christ flinging flaming hailstones at their heads "very soon now".
You'd think something of such importance would be quite prominent on such a website.
Yes, weird indeed. How many more sharks are there left to jump???
Very telling. How much more obviously commercialized can this "religion" become?
d4g
So true.
d4g
i think that 80% of jws do not truly believe in what they are taught .
the vast majority stay in because of family, friends, ignorance and a lack of caring about any of the facts regarding the "truth".
many people are lazy.
There might be some that believe 100%, (or close to it), but not the majority. Most learn techniques to deal with their cognitive dissonance very early in life, and things like starting businesses and getting an education are just some of things they do along those lines. Clearly those actions do indicate that deep down they really do not believe, however the psychological and social impact of allowing themselves to see that fact, is usually at too high of a cost to motivate them to action. The obvious cost being not only loss of friends and family, but even more importantly loss of self identity. Anyone who has been through this process knows what I am speaking of.
The above is why it almost always takes some event in one's life to wake them up. An event such as a divorce, or some injustice by the elders tends to lower the "cost" of being brave enough to start questioning. The cost is lowered because social damage is almost always done to a person whom has experienced such an event. Sides are taken in the congregation, and the individual is often ostracized at some level. It simply becomes a matter of "I have nothing, (or very little), to lose by looking into my doubts".
I would almost go as far as saying that unless some faith dislodging event does take place in one's life, it is almost impossible to leave on one's own volition 100%. It may not necessarily be a personal matter, (such as a divorce or JC), but any one thing that causes enough discomfort, is what is required to leave at a bare minimum. I doubt anyone leaves that is psychologically and socially content, no matter how intelligent or how much they really don't believe deep down. It is not necessarily a matter of laziness, but rather, (existential), fear.
d4g
when speaking with brothers, i can see they really like the jw.org site more than magazines and books.
i can imagine them publishing more and more articles and news as it's more dynamic and creates a sense of alert with brothers looking for new articles to read instead of the boring monthly magazines.. but when it comes to the jw broadcasting, it's something different.
even elders admit they aren't watching the monthly broadcastings.
Not much to add other than this is one of most cognitive dissonance inducing moves the organization has made in a long time, perhaps ever. It is no wonder that the diehards will not watch it. It can only hurt their perception of the GB, and the organization as a whole.
A message to the GB, keep doing this:
1. Asking for money.
2. Finding clever ways to take people's money.
3. Showing yourselves as frequently as possible on the broadcasts. Your sycophants just love your beaming faces.
4. Continue to show how out of touch you are with real world concerns.
This will be the WT's undoing. It is already happening.
d4g
a new montra that was recently adopted by the wife and i is this:.
dont give them more power than they deserve.. here's why i say that, and i point this to those of you still in the congregation, still trying to decide what you want to do.. recently, our family had a little family reunion gathering of sorts, and we were in the company of some extended family that were either df or da, to varying degrees.
we made it very clear, to any and all in attendance, that we wanted to be respectful and kind, despite any previous perceptions about our "status".... and that our feelings on a lot of things had "softened", and "changed" over the last 2 years.. i am being purposefully slightly vague, but i think you get the point.
Reminds me of a situation that arose about six months after I stopped attending in 2006. Not a single call to check where I was, how I was doing, etc., in that six month period. Until...
I received a phone call from the PO, (one of maybe two times ever he called my cell), and I let it go to VM. I checked the VM, and it said something to the effect of, "the brothers heard about some things you are doing and wanted to speak with you...". This was an obvious invitation to a JC, supposedly because I was living with my girlfriend at the time. I blew the call off.
Then three weeks later I receive a second call from this same asshat. I let it go to VM again. This time something to the effect of "we know where you live, you live in (an improperly pronounced town), and we want to send your records to the congregation there". This was another pitiful attempt to get me to confess something to them. I ignored them this second time and never heard back.
The simplest and most effective thing you can do is simply ignore them. That takes all of their power away, and not a goddamn thing they can do about it.
d4g
perhaps some of you remember a new understanding of the sheep and the goats in the epic march 2015 wt study edition - specifically the article "loyally supporting christ's brothers".. while this article was studied many months ago, it was instrumental in helping me wake up.
during my study of the 2015 article i recalled that we had just revised our understanding of the sheep and the goats a few years ago and this caused me to research the real progression of the jw understanding of this parable.
i put the results of my research in an excel spreadsheet.. .
Only in WT land is being a sheeple considered a good thing.
d4g
i wonder how many of us here hold on to this meeting place out of "loneliness.
could it be that we harbor feelings of "abandonment" and "loneliness" from being left cold and dry by the wt people and our families?
perhaps we do have a need to reach out to people with similar experiences.
Loneliness, no. Catharsis, yes, currently.
In the past it was research, (when I started here over 9 years ago), and support. I was off the forum for several years between 2009 and late 2013 or so, and had little need for this type of exchange during that period. About two years ago certain life changes forced me to express my thoughts with respect to relationships with JWs, as I was deeply hurt by an old JW friend "just following orders" that decided to shun me. That experience taught me empathy however, and I try to offer such to those far less fortunate than myself, with respect to being an ex-JW, which is another reason I continue to contribute here.
I have a wonderful family, a good education and career, and a good second lease on life overall. Nothing to be lonely about.
d4g
my middle brother called me a couple of hours ago.
our youngest brother, josh, who was 38, was found by his friends in his apartment.
he hung himself.
So sorry to hear this, Rich. I have no adequate words...This will take time to process. Whatever you do, don't think that reacting or not reacting a certain way means you are doing something wrong. There is no "right" way to handle this...
Jason
take the case of rolf furuli.
i don't think there has been a specific thread on the hebrew verbs u-turn in the nwt, and how the society has responded to the work of perhaps their brightest and ablest defender in their history.
so here goes.. rolf furuli has defended jws on multiple fronts in many different settings, on issues ranging from chronology, mental health, doctrines, bible translation and the blood issue.
WT is an authoritarian system. Academics are anathema to authoritarianism.
Fred Franz was a pseudo-academic, however was also one of the organization's authoritarian leaders. When he died, no one filled that vacuum, and the organization lost the ability to counter any academic arguments made against their theology. Authoritarian leaders don't accept being challenged, and also don't accept outside "help" from those whom they fear are more intelligent/better educated than they are. They are well aware that at some point these strong supporters could turn on them, once enough academic "digging" is performed.
This is not difficult to understand. If someone performs enough research, it is not difficult at all to not only disprove JW theology, but also see that the origins of Christianity, Judaism, etc., all evolved from polytheistic, pagan religious systems. The WT leaders know this. Authoritarian leaders are propagandists, not interested in truth or the pursuit of it at all. Furuli may/may not be a true academic in the pursuit of fact finding, (he may be little more than just another self-proclaimed "expert", looking to have his ego stroked), but either way, he presents risk to an organization dependent on its authoritarian structure, simply because he is an outsider, and an educated one.
d4g
hello my dear friends :).
i am here once again because you guys are pretty much the most awesome peeps ever.. i have a new dilemma that i'd like your opinions on.
as most of you know, i'm an agnostic.
If she is actually "religious" in the overt sense, I would say stay away. Religious folks at that extreme will eventually need to chose between you and their faith at some point, to some degree or another. However...
In my experience with Catholicism, very few are like that. My wife's family is Catholic, (she herself is agnostic), and they are very accepting of the fact that neither of us are believers, (including a BIL who is a former Vatican priest). I really don't know of any modern Catholics that have such a polarized worldview. They tend to view most of their religious rites more as family tradition, than actual requirements to be "saved".
All religion is toxic, but this one in modern context, is a good deal less than most.
d4g
