Posts by renando

22

Why doesn't the Holy Spirit know the day and hour of Jesus return?

by booker-t in

everytime you talk about the trinity to born-again christians and bring up the verse where it says of the day and hour only the father knows they will immediately say jesus was in his "human nature" that is why he does not know.

but my question is why don't the holy spirit know the day and hour?

is the holy spirit in human nature as well?

renando_stimpy

This was the first thing that popped into me knoggin.

Rev 19:12b The Word of God cf. 19:13b having a name that He himself only knows, the last Witness I asked about that verse shouted and carried on, as they tend to do with me... I'm obviously not a calming influence (perhaps it's the color of my door / doormat / odour?)

And just out of interest, where is the verse that says the Holy Spirit didn't know? Is the omission of evidence proving knowledge exists proof that knowledge doesn't exist ? (yeah, my first glass of wine in a few weeks. forgive me.)

I know in Acts 1:7 the Son is saying that it's not for anyone but the FATHER to know the dates and times set by the FATHERS authority. Does the Father know the name of the Son in Rev 19:12b and by the same token does the Holy Spirit?

Which one knows how much and Why are interesting questions. If you find an answer let me know..

Renando

11

Who Is The Agency that fulfills the Lord's will upon the earth

by descmh in

i am speaking with a wonderful person about the jehovah's witnesses and she has asked myself and my wife who we think the "agency" that fulfills the lord's will upon the earth is.

my question is, do the jehovah's witnesses think that their watchtower organization is this "agency" or is it christ's church on the earth.

furthermore, where is the scripture reference that this is taken from.

renando_stimpy

Thanks jgnat

Matthew 24: 45 NIV "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?"

I wonder if pointing them to Mt 24:48 "But suppose that servant is wicked" and asking if therefore it was actually possible for the 'servant' to be wicked and what that would mean for them..

Mt 24:50-51 - How would the "Master" treat the "servant" if He found out the servant had been naughty :)

interesting propostition, with a likely outcome..

I also like Jn 16:7-8 and 16:12 "But when he, The Spirit of Truth, comes" with the numerous mentions of "speak" and "tell" and of course "he"..

Ephesians 1:13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

It's a good conversation starter..

8

excerpt from www.watchtower.org...

by SB in

the official website of the true god.

here is a preview, w/a link to the rest of the information.

very interesting how they explain exactly what propoganda is.... http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/6/22/article_03.htm.

renando_stimpy

Discernment enables you to discard irrelevant information or misleading facts and distinguish the substance of a matter. But how can you discern when something is misleading? - I notice they don't actually answer this question... hmm wonder why ??

Moreover, if we want to be fair-minded, we must be willing to subject our own opinions to continual testing as we take in new information. We must realize that they are, after all, opinions. Their trustworthiness depends on the validity of our facts, on the quality of our reasoning, and on the standards or values that we choose to apply. -Is this the same quality of "reasoning" they use to determine there are 2 alphas and 2 omegas, 2 beginnings and 2 ends, 2 firsts and 2 lasts ? yes... thats some good reasoning right there...

Yes, in this age of sophisticated propaganda, we can confidently (don't bother to fact check it, we are quite confident it's right, although we have just changed it ) look to Jehovah's Word (Awake, Watchtower mag.... oh and the bible ) as the source of truth.. - You could just read the first paragraph and the last paragraph, there's no point for everything in between..

"A fool will believe anything." - wow, now if they could just use some of their "quality reasoning" perhaps they'd realise what they are...

Sometimes I wonder why they bother... oh no wait, they are a publishing company, it's there job... :)

9

SUREFIRE way of shutting up that evangelical that is driving you nuts

by Mistah MOJO in

my only extensive experience of organized religion was the jehovah's witnesses.

my imprisonment in that sect was mercifully brief.

however, my experience with the "borned agin" crowd is very extensive.

renando_stimpy

Thank You, I wouldn't have taken it personally anyway, you learn to brush things off after a while walking this line..

I'm sorry to hear about your personal situation, I sortof know what you must be going through, I lived on a cult's premise once upon a time, I worked close by and the rent was $10 a week :), I think they wanted to train me, but I wasn't having a bar of it.. I saw what went on there, how once intelligent, free thinking, happy people were turned into mindless recitation Blobs. I can't imagine how how hard that must be to un-program from ones head.. It seems to be a pretty accurate reflection on the WTS from what I've heard and seen.. Hope you and your bride-to-be's sister can break free from it..

Hope your studies pay off for you...

9

SUREFIRE way of shutting up that evangelical that is driving you nuts

by Mistah MOJO in

my only extensive experience of organized religion was the jehovah's witnesses.

my imprisonment in that sect was mercifully brief.

however, my experience with the "borned agin" crowd is very extensive.

renando_stimpy

Yes your quite right of course Mistah MOJO there is nothing in the context that would suggest he is talking of poor people..

In my view the context of the passage seems to be that of resistance or conflict as v38 is talking about 'eye for eye' sortof revenge.. v40 being sued by someone.. v41 forcing you to walk a mile.. v42 give to those who ask you... it seems almost to be talking about being in submission in the face of danger..

So I guess in that context the one asking for money from you would have to have a weapon or be demanding it with a threat not just quoting a scripture and expecting you to hand over your wallet..

That's my opinion however, I'd give you my wallet if you asked for it anyway, but just for fun.. it's empty :)

9

SUREFIRE way of shutting up that evangelical that is driving you nuts

by Mistah MOJO in

my only extensive experience of organized religion was the jehovah's witnesses.

my imprisonment in that sect was mercifully brief.

however, my experience with the "borned agin" crowd is very extensive.

renando_stimpy

Dt 15:7-8 : If there is any poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the Lord your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be open handed and freely lend him whatever he needs.

Perhaps Jesus is talking about poor people and not about giving to any person that asks with reason only to test your faith...

Just a thought, although I understand where your coming from and it is rather sad how some christian's buckle when money is concerned..

14

When was Jesus Christ Created?

by renando_stimpy in

i was thinking about this today and was wondering what the wts has to say about such things ?.

isaiah 43:10 : ... before me no god was formed nor will there be one after me.... john 1:1 (nwt): ... the word was a god .... john 1:2 : ... he was with god in the beginning .... if no god would ever be formed before and no god would be formed after, when was jesus christ ( a mighty god - isa 9:6 ) formed ?

i think the bible makes itself quite clear regarding time, first and last, alpha and omega, beginning and end, before and after, morning and evening etc.. so i would think that saying god is not within a form of time albiet a different time to ours (days = years) wouldn't hold water when compared to the scriptures... rev 1:17 - ... do not be afraid.

renando_stimpy

I was really wondering what the WTS thinks about a question like this, it was not meant to reflect my beliefs and is not a question I personally need answered, but a question I was posing hypothetically to try and ascertain what sortof responses I would recieve..

So far it doesn't seem to really be of any use as a thoughtful question, back to the drawing board ... perhaps if I asked when "Michael the Archangel" was created and why the Bible is so vague about something so important...

I don't intend to stay away from cults, I believe these people are dying with bibles in their hands and I don't want to stand by and watch without even trying to help them or at least defend the faith...

14

When was Jesus Christ Created?

by renando_stimpy in

i was thinking about this today and was wondering what the wts has to say about such things ?.

isaiah 43:10 : ... before me no god was formed nor will there be one after me.... john 1:1 (nwt): ... the word was a god .... john 1:2 : ... he was with god in the beginning .... if no god would ever be formed before and no god would be formed after, when was jesus christ ( a mighty god - isa 9:6 ) formed ?

i think the bible makes itself quite clear regarding time, first and last, alpha and omega, beginning and end, before and after, morning and evening etc.. so i would think that saying god is not within a form of time albiet a different time to ours (days = years) wouldn't hold water when compared to the scriptures... rev 1:17 - ... do not be afraid.

renando_stimpy

firstborn doesn't always mean first-born chronologically..

Gen 41:51 - Joseph named his firstborn Manasseh...

Jer 31:9 - ... and Ephraim is my firstborn son ...

Ps 89:27 - I will also appoint him my firstborn, the most Exalted of the Kings of the Earth..

It seems to me that firstborn can also be appointed to an individual, What is the WTS reasoning for using a different definintion when applied to Jesus Christ ? Is it because it contradicts WT theology?

14

When was Jesus Christ Created?

by renando_stimpy in

i was thinking about this today and was wondering what the wts has to say about such things ?.

isaiah 43:10 : ... before me no god was formed nor will there be one after me.... john 1:1 (nwt): ... the word was a god .... john 1:2 : ... he was with god in the beginning .... if no god would ever be formed before and no god would be formed after, when was jesus christ ( a mighty god - isa 9:6 ) formed ?

i think the bible makes itself quite clear regarding time, first and last, alpha and omega, beginning and end, before and after, morning and evening etc.. so i would think that saying god is not within a form of time albiet a different time to ours (days = years) wouldn't hold water when compared to the scriptures... rev 1:17 - ... do not be afraid.

renando_stimpy

I was thinking about this today and was wondering what the WTS has to say about such things ?

Isaiah 43:10 : ... Before me no god was formed nor will there be one after me...

John 1:1 (NWT): ... the word was a God ...

John 1:2 : ... He was with God in the beginning ...

If no God would ever be formed before and no God would be formed after, when was Jesus Christ ( a Mighty God - Isa 9:6 ) formed ?

I think the Bible makes itself quite clear regarding time, First and Last, Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End, Before and After, Morning and Evening etc.. so I would think that saying God is not within a form of time albiet a different time to ours (days = years) wouldn't hold water when compared to the scriptures..

Rev 1:17 - ... Do not be afraid. I am the First and Last, I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and Hades.

How is this reconciled ?

29

Couple of JW Sisters came to my door - mini rumble

by Qcmbr in

first of all want to thank you all for informing me of the good the bad and smurfly about jws - i was so stoked when these two sister's knocked on my door.

i apologise now - i was a smug git - in fairness they conducted themselves impeccably in the face of me.

this is how it went (paraphrased to highlight 'clever' bits i said and downplay swathes of conversation when i said silly things.

renando_stimpy

I credit Jehovah's Witnesses for my new love of the Bible,

I was so sick of being walked all up and down in circular arguments it sent me crazy, I just had to have some comebacks..

Since then I have had a bit of practice and the last visit I had a great comeback, one of them said "yes" and the other said "no"

Victory Is Mine !!!

Well done for sticking up for yourself.. It a shame more people don't, or rather don't know how..

renando_stimpy

Posts by renando_stimpy