Posts by LisaRose

9

Paul said NOT to be "Harsh" in Shunning

by FusionTheism in

the apostle paul warned the corinthians not to be too harsh in their shunning of a man who was guilty of sexual immortality / adultery:.

2 co 2:5-11: now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of you to an extentnot to be too harsh in what i say.

this rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man; now you should instead kindly forgive and comfort him, so that he may not be overwhelmed by excessive sadness.

LisaRose

It ties in with my belief that the early Christians did not practice shunning as the Jehovah's Witnesses do. No judicial committee, no announcement, but if a person was known to do things that was not right, then those people that were aware of it would simply stop associating with him. No need for the elders to sniff out any hint of impropriety, no harsh shunning because someone made a mistake, it would take a consistent practice of such behavior, and such judgement was by individuals, by church leaders.

And since there is a record of the early Christians having disagreements, no shunning because you didn't agree 100 with another person, even if they were church leaders.

17

Convention Invites are Idiotic

by cookiemaster in

so, like every year, there's a campaign going on about giving people convention invites and urging them to attend the convention.

what an utterly moronic waste of time.

we live 500+ kilometers away from the convention hall.

LisaRose

And if anybody other than a Jehovah's Witness actually showed up they would be immediately grilled as to why they don't have a convention badge and parking pass. Women would be looked at oddly for not wearing a dress, men would be looked at oddly for sporting facial hair. They would be confused because they didn't bring a song book and wouldn't know what to sing. At lunch they would be hungry because they didn't know they would be expected to pack a lunch for religious services. After the hike from the parking lot they would be have to troop up to the nosebleed section, as all other seats would have been taken. If they managed to make it through that, they would be either bored to tears and/or horrified, depending on what they heard. After which they would beat feet home, and the idea of attending a Jehovah's Witness convention would never be mentioned again.

67

'Conti' Court decision secures Watchtower's Policy of confidentiality

by telemetry11 in

the court on the rule of confidentiality of penitential communications and evidentiary privilege--.. decision reads:.

"the law generally protects the confidentiality of communications with clergy like those of kendrick to the elders here.".

"if the person has a constitutional right to independence in making religious choices, the recognition of an evidentiary privilege is an apt means of protecting that autonomy.

LisaRose

Under oath, Defendant testified at trial and that is what this case is about stating to the jury and in open Court what she wanted, MONEY. Regarding getting the WT to change their policy, I have already posted on that before, Can't you read ,Einstein? At the trial, and that is what this case is about, Defendant asked for money for damages and not for injunctive relief against the WT.

And why shouldn't she ask for money ? You seem quite eager to uphold the constitution, why aren't you interested in Candace Conti's right to sue Watchtower for the damage that was done to her? Do you understand that harm is done to a young girl when a man uses her for sexual gratification?

67

'Conti' Court decision secures Watchtower's Policy of confidentiality

by telemetry11 in

the court on the rule of confidentiality of penitential communications and evidentiary privilege--.. decision reads:.

"the law generally protects the confidentiality of communications with clergy like those of kendrick to the elders here.".

"if the person has a constitutional right to independence in making religious choices, the recognition of an evidentiary privilege is an apt means of protecting that autonomy.

LisaRose

Why was the no witness rule versus the 2 witness rule not good enough for the Police and for the DA in this case and why were Conti's allegations against Kendrigs not good enough to have him arrested?

It's Kendrick, not Kendrigs.

What is needed in a court of law to prosecute someone is one thing, that bar is set pretty high, which should be the case when a person's freedom is at risk. But when it comes to a this incident, where there had been a complaint made, where Kindrich admitted some of the wrongdoing, where the brothers on the committee said they felt Kendrich was not bring truthful, where the wife knew at least part of it had happened, there was more than enough proof to say that this person should not have been in a position of authority or allowed to be around children.

25

An interesting theory on Stephen Lett

by joe134cd in

interesting theory i thought on stephen lett.

if anything i would of thought tomo3 would of caused them more grief with his comments.. http://insidethewatchtower.com/governing-body/stephen-lett-dumped-from-governing-body/.

LisaRose

He is an embarrassment, and the fact that they continue to put him in front of a camera tells you that the clowns are running the circus.

60

Why don’t we have a better story?

by iconoclastic in

1. some say we are all gods, and god is omnipresent..

2. some say: god created his children who later challenged his sovereignty, who in turn asked his eldest son: go down to the world, do not resist the wicked, but be murdered by them, the value of which will be used to atone the sins of the world..

3. universe arose out of a big bang.

LisaRose

If Sir Issac Newton were alive today I doubt he would be making that statement, we have learned a thing or two in the last three hundred years . You argument is known as an "appeal to authority", but it is weak because, while Isaac Newton was a really smart guy, he knew nothing about DNA, the fossil record and evolution, and a few thousand other things that have been discovered since his time.

And scientists are actually quite close to creating a functioning artificial hand. While evolution got a head start of millions of years, recent advances in all fields of science make it a certainty that fully functioning artificial limbs will be a available in the near future.

Way back in the early eighties I worked for a company that had a computer to automate tracking their manufacturing process. The computer took up an entire large room, and it held less data that my current smart phone. In fact, knowledge in all science fields has increased dramatically in those 35 years. At that time I was still a JW and believed evolution was a hoax perpetrated by scientists, but to believe that today you have to stick your head in the sand. Why would you do that?

If God exists, he certainly doesn't want you to live in ignorance. At one time people were persecuted for believing the earth revolved the sun, as if that somehow disproved God's existence. But knowledge won out and people kept believing in God. Not believing in evolution today is equivalent to believing the sun revolves around the earth. So why are you so afraid to look at the evidence objectively? Is your faith so weak that it will wither if you do?

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

LisaRose

Mandated reporting laws and how it applies to clergy-penitant privilege vary from state to state. In California, clegy-penitent privilege only applies to pastoral communications, so If the elders had learned of the abuse only from Campos himself they would not have had to report it, had but since they learned of the abuse from another source they should have reported it (assuming that law,was in effect at the time).

What makes me mad is that most religions retain clergy-penitant privilege to maintain confidentiality and protect the person involved, but the Watchtower doesn't care about that, they only care about protecting themselves. They keep records of any confessions that are made in the judicial committee, which belies the concept of such privilege. It's also not unknown for details of judicial committee hearings to be leaked by elders to their wives or others (except of course when it comes to pedophiles), which also weakens their claim of privilege.

17

Do or did the JW's believe dinosaurs were vegetarians?

by Crazyguy in

i thought at one time or maybe they still do believe that the dinosaurs were vegetarians?

LisaRose

Actually, some dinosaurs were herbivores.

78

My experience of christians and religion

by Doltologist in

one or two of you have noticed that i use derogatory terms when talking about matters religion.

i offer no apology.

you do, however, deserve an explanation.. my father, bless him and now dead, was a survivor of belsen, the german concentration camp.

LisaRose

Doltologist, your parents were idiots, being C of E had little to do with it. Religion can make us better people or not, to the extent we can look at ourselves, see our own faults and let it motivate us to be better. It doesn't work when people won't do that, as with your parents. There are churches that address these kinds of things, so not all Christians are like your parents. I am not too familiar with C and E, being American, but plenty of churches are attempting to teach altruism, empathy and true morality (that not having to do sex). That most fail is why they are on the decline, imo.

Given your history it's understandable that you hate religion, but I find your use of made up terms to be annoying and it's hard to take you seriously because of it. We all have had our moments of making fun of the Watchtower and religion in general, but most of us moved on at some point. You may want to think about why you still have a lot of anger towards your parents. While understandable, is it really serving you well in your life right now? I'd there the possibility of letting it go? Just something to think about.

One of the goals of this board it to help those who are leaving or at least having doubts about the Watchtower. They may very well be turned off by your use of such terms and not stick around to learn more that could help them get free of the Watchtower. They have been conditioned to think that all us apostates are evil, horrible people who want to tear down the faith of others. This fear is so strong that even if they hate the Watchtower they may be hesitant to come here. I myself didn't find this site until eight years after leaving the Watchtower, even as I knew it was not the truth.

9

PERFECTION (ISM) leaves no trace of YOU

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

the problem of perfection(ism).

the best piece of advice i got was from my art teacher, aubrey mayhew.he told me, "art isn't about 'getting it right.

' it's about your mistaken views which you give yourself permission to explore.".

LisaRose

I like the quote that says "art is the lie that reveals the truth."

I saw a sculpture in a gallery of a crouching man. It was crudely constructed of newspaper and duct tape, but it was more memorable than any bronze sculptures I have ever seen. You felt the power in the thing, that at any moment that man was going to stand up and do something.

I know enough about the creative process to know that being afraid (of not reaching perfection, or of people not liking it, of people will think you are stupid, etc) will keep you from doing your best work. When you let that go, when you accept that you are deeply flawed (as we all are) then you can start to have something.