I have Pandora on my Kindle, I usually listen to meditation type music in the evening, it's very relaxing. My favorite artist is Dueter. Last night I hit my Avett brothers station by mistake. I guess the cat has been bored by my meditation music, when she heard the Avett brothers she immediately hopped in my lap and listened attentively, turning her hears back and forth for a good twenty minutes. She likes music and will sit behind the TV with her head on the speakers if there is background music that interests her, but she has been ignoring music on Pandora recently, I guess I need to mix things up a little more.
LisaRose
JoinedPosts by LisaRose
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35
Kick Back and Relax to Some Music
by Finkelstein inthat's right folks time to kick back , pour a cold one and in take in some tunes.. what are you listening to right now ?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu87294pvx8.
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Introducing...ME
by Heartsafire inlong time lurker here.
i'm a fifth gen born-in baptized jw.
to say i've been struggling with doubts is an understatement.
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LisaRose
Welcome Heartsafire! Great opening post. You should be proud of yourself for having the courage to seek the truth and go where the evidence lead you. It seems so simple, but the reality is people just don't often do that.
I would encourage you to read "Mistakes were made ( but not by me)" by Carol Travris, to learn about cognitive dissonance and why as humans we tend to discount information that does not confirm our previously held beliefs. It might make you more aware of what will work when talking to your husband. Getting an indoctrinated spouse to see the truth is not easy, some marriages break up, some continue on but divided, a few have gotten a loved one out, you may be able to also. As I am sure you already know, the direct approach does not work.
Lisa 🌹
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Cult or Religion
by Richard C B inwhat is a cult and what is a religion?
its open to debate.
who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?
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LisaRose
If you go to this website you will find that the Watchtower meets every criteria they list. Not that this particular source is the absolute authority on cults, but it's hard to deny that the Watchtower uses the techniques listed there.
Most people think to be a cult means everyone has to live in a commune and wear distinctive clothes. While some cults do that, what defines a cult is the methods they use to retain and control their members that makes it a cult, not the outward appearance.
While you could say every religion is a cult, most mainstream religions do not engage in these practices:
Information control. The Watchtower discourages its members from seeking higher education or reading literature that is critical of the organization. They constantly warn about the dangers of so called apostates, saying they are bitter and angry and tell lies. Any former member who criticizes the Watchtower is considered a "bitter, angry apostae". Most religions have no problem with higher education, reading things not endorsed by them or even talking to former members, even if they are critical of the church.
Relationship control. JWs are discouraged from seeking relationships outside of the organization, they are absolutely forbidden to talk to disfellowshipped former members. The vast majority of religions have no such rules.
Deception. Does the Watchtower tell new recruits that they have incorrectly predicted the end of the world numerous times? Do they tell new recruits they will be disfellowshipped for celebrating Christmas? That they will be expected to shun their children if they do not choose to be JWs if they were ever baptized? Most religions are open about their beliefs, practices and history.
Fear and intimidation. The Watchtower claims to be the sole channel of communication between God and mankind. To disobey them is equated with disobeing God and will result in death at Armageddon and shunning by family and friends. Most churches have no problem if you leave their church and join another. While some may believe in hell fire or that they are the only true church, not all do.
Reporting Structure. Jws are encouraged to report transgressions they know of to the elders. Things told in confidence are shared with other members, judicial committee are formed, the Watchtower is informed in all cases of serious sin, a record is kept on file for years. Individuals are controlled by the elders, the elders report to a circuit overseer, they report to the Watchtower. Meeting schedule and content are tightly controlled by the Watchtower. Kingdom Halls are no longer owned by the congregation, "mother" decides which halls get built, which are sold (all profit to the Watchtower) which get remodeled. Most congregations on other religions have much more autonomy, membership often decides to builds the church and decides who will be their pastor. That pastor decides the content of sermons each week and tailors his services to the needs of the congregation.
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5
Just me?
by stuffwotifink inmy family are no longer in the shadow of the watchtower.
(2nd generation born in, but only a small family)for that i have to offer my thanks to simon and everyone on this forum whose posts helped expose me to ttatt (i struggle to say quite how much it actually means to me, so i won't say more than, thank you).it all took a year or two, but i've read enough to know that i'm incredibly lucky and that it all happened for me in a very short time.although time turns to syrup when you have to wait.
"expectation postponed..." will the platitudinous catchphrase scriptures ever stop coming to mind?when i started to tell my family some of the things i'd been learning online, they looked at me with no little fear and trepidation.
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LisaRose
You are completely normal, most of us had to find the truth on our own, if anyone had tried to convince me of any of tatt, it would have just made me determined not to listen.
It's partially that the Watchtower conditioned us to fear apostates and partially simple human nature.
Studies have shown that the more people have invested in a choice, the less likely they are to listen to anything negative about it. It's seems we tend to reject anything that would make us think we made a mistake. We decide it must be a lie, or nitpick it, or find fault with their person sharing the information (bitter apostates!) That changes if we start becoming unhappy with the choice and start looking for answers on our own.
That's why it's usually futile to try and get someone to believe negative information about the Watchtower. If you tell them the Watchtower has a problem pedophiles, this creates a state of cognitive dissonance, because to believe the Watchtower knowingly did wrong means they picked the wrong religion. The idea they might have picked wrong religion is painful, so they dismiss the negative information as being unreliable.
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94
What other Shenanigans can we expect to see in the next 2 years?
by John Aquila inits been a little over 2 years since i left the watchtower.
in that time the magazines have been cut, the birth of jwtv, jw-org.
carts for preaching, removed district overseers, cut assemblies, demand all the money from the congregations, stop construction and layoff bethelites, change the format of the tmschool .
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LisaRose
John Aquila, or anybody really, when I was younger (in the good old days) I used to volunteer at every assembly serving teas & coffee, everyone used to buy tickets at the congregation from the elders, Like $1 = 1 ticket, & so 2 tickets gets you a coffee. I remember 100`s of those tickets going through my hands. Do you think that they were making a profit out of that, charging more for the tickets than was necessary? only there was no choice, no ticket no drink. I remember we all thought how wonderful it was that these things were all being taken care of before hand but now I think about it what difference would it have made, 2 tickets or $2. they were ripping us off weren't they?
Of course they made money on the food. They bought cheap food in enormous quantity, used all volunteer labor and had a captive customer base for the product. They had to give it up because the IRS realized that they were operating a profit making food business. They tried the no-charge-but-hope-people-pay-with-donations, that didn't work, so they stopped food service. There was just no way to make sure that people donated enough for them to make a profit.
I don't believe they will ever give up the door to door work, although they may stop paying living expenses for the special pioneers. They don't care if people waste time knocking on doors, it costs them nothing and they don't give a rat's a## about the personal lives of the pubs, and besides, they are still getting recruits in some countries, they won't give that up. They may change the focus to things that are more profitable, like the carts, but they will not stop door to door, that would raise too many questions.
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Regarding changes and my poor mother!
by username inwell i just got off the phone with mother (thankfully she has no part in the shunning policy) and she thinks the changes are "marverless" this i would imagine is the general consensus of most hardcore rank and file!
she is even investing in a roku device so she can watch more indoctrination programming.
to be honest i wouldn't even try make her think, because she has far to much invested in the cult.
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LisaRose
I am reading a book that was mentioned here a few days ago called Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me. It explains why people tend to stay with a decision, even when they come across contradictory information. The more they have invested in a decision, the more they defend it and resist information that doesn't mesh.
They took two groups of college freshmen and put them through an initiation into a fraternity. One group had an easy initiation, the other group had one that was much more difficult. The difficult group were much more enthusiastic about their fraternity, more dedicated to it and less likely to notice or mention faults than the other group.
This is why it's so futile to attempt to get someone to leave the Watchtower, mist have too much invested. Most people have given up a lot to be JWs, this fact alone binds them to the religion, even when it makes no logical sense. It takes something fairly drastic to make a JW consider leaving the group. They have to be treated very unfairly, or have a family member treated unfairly, or face a personal crisis of some sort.
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Does Anyone Still Believe in God?
by LaurenM indo any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?
even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.
the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.
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LisaRose
I used to do very technical, complicated work, writing programs to determine overbilling issues and correctly credit people who were overcharged. It was stressful, because a mistake could cost the company I worked for money, potentially large sums of money, the billing system was complex, convoluted really, overbilling could potentially run into the millions, my work was audited, but those audits were limited by the skill of the auditors.
The only way I could sleep at night was to give it my best, use all the skills and knowledge I possessed, work hard, and then stop worrying about it. At the end of the day, if mistakes were made, I would know that I did the best I could, given the limits of my knowledge, skills and abilities and the challenges inherent in the job.
That is how I feel about belief in God. I did my best to look at all available evidence and made a rational decision based on where the evidence led me. I found the evidence for God was lacking. If there is a God, and he judges me unkindly for making the best decision I could make, then he is not a fair and just God, and therefore not actually God, or not a God I could worship.
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This morning's magazine trolley encounter..
by GodZoo inwas just out shopping and came across two middle aged female witnesses with their magazine trolley..
i approached them and they were all glee and smiles and ready to hand me a couple of magazines.
one moment ladies i have just a couple of questions..
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LisaRose
I understand your feelings tornapart, but you have to realize these women are not innocent in all this. They are choosing to publicly support a religion that they don't really know anything about, one that hurts people in a very real and serious way. Their feelings were hurt for a few minutes, but they have a choice now, stay and support this cancer of a religion or leave and free themselves and not risk dragging other innocent people into it.
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On a need to know basis - The Letter
by no-zombie inwe've just had our sunday meeting and the letter was read out to the congregation.. however, there was no mention of the bethel lay-offs or the building program shut-downs.. looks like we are on a need to know basis, here in australia..
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LisaRose
Perhaps it would be good if those who still attend meetings could spread the word about the Bethel layoffs and construction stops. It is being talked about on the pro JW discussion sites, so it's not like it would make people wonder where they got the information. Everyone loves a good piece of gossip, especially if it seems like insider information.
This cult is run on secrecy, it's time people in the organization find out what has been going on. That information alone will not make anybody wake up, but it's a piece of the puzzle that might make people more aware that things are not all as perfect as they pretend. If I were still in, I would wonder why it isn't being discussed openly. If it's a sign that the end is nigh, and more focus is being put on the field ministry, why isn't the Watchtower talking about it? If the field ministry is now so much more important, why are the rank and file not being told?
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New member checking in
by Old Major inbeen reading for about 2 and a half years, thought i would take the plunge and sign up.. my circumstances... i live in uk, serving as ms. i am fully awake.
i can not leave due to family, so just treating the meetings as a bit of a social club.
i would like to give out more details, but i think you all know the drill.. complete disillusionment and i suppose natural curiosity woke me up.. don't know what else to say right now, just hello, and i hope to get to know some of you guys better.
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LisaRose
Welcome, glad you could join us.
Lisa 🌹