Welcome!
I am so happy your daughter will not have to live the guilt ridden life of a Jehovah's Witness. Good for you for giving her that precious gift.
Lisa 🌹
LisaRose
JoinedPosts by LisaRose
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36
Hello to everybody!
by John Free ini wanted to introduce myself.
like many of you i was born-in, am married with one child.
after 36 years of this cycle: doubts-thought stopping- suppression- indoctrination-cult mode i realised enough was enough.
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14
Found Nephew. Sisters incredible reaction.
by umbertoecho ini won't make this long.
i went out again and found him.
got in through the back door, pushed him to wake up, got him out, fed him, watered him and said he was family and i have a plan.. we talked all day, i let him do what he does, in order not to scare him about the future change that could happen for him.
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LisaRose
She cannot admit that she might not have done the best for him, so she makes you into the villain so she can feel good about herself. It's pretty predictable with JWs, with most people really.
Good for you for doing what needed to be done and putting up with her abuse. I am sure your nephew will be grateful, although if he gets better she will hate you all the more.
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The right to shun - wrong?
by Simon inmany people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.
it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.
of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.
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LisaRose
You cannot legislate to force people to talk to one another, it violates the basic rights of individuals.
I don't think any attempt by government to restrict a religion from teaching their members to shun will work either, but itwould be nice to see an educational campaign that would shine a light on this hateful practice. How many people would join a religion if they knew that they would be expected to shun their own child in some circumstances? It's not something they talk about much before baptism, if at all, they pretend it's only in cases of very willful sin, and only if someone is completely unrepentant. It's one of the biggest lies they tell.
Broken families, suicide, and great personal anguish are the end result of this hateful practice, yet most people know nothing about it.
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225
Cult or Religion
by Richard C B inwhat is a cult and what is a religion?
its open to debate.
who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?
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LisaRose
I think people have forgot what an actual cult is.
Not all cults have a charismatic leader, although the Watchtower was originally led by Charles take Russel, who was considered a charismatic leader in his time.
I think you need to educate yourself on what a cult is. Absolute isolation and control describes some cults, but not all, what makes a cult is the things they do to control their members as described in my post above, and you can't deny the Watchtower uses control, deception, intimidation, relationship control and a clear reporting structure.
No member of a cult believes they are in a cult, that is part of the deception. But if a group teaches that they are the only path to salvation, tells you who you can talk to, encourages members to report bad behavior and hides their history and practices, then they are a cult, no matter if they have a single leader, or a body of leaders, or what clothes they wear. Those are surface trivialities.
If it walks like a duck.......
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Do you have J-dar?
by JWdaughter intoday at work i had an interesting set of co workers.
one was telling us about her side job selling sex toys(also a l&d nurse).
the other one, very beautiful, intelligent woman told us of her 2 kids.
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LisaRose
I have identified a few even though they were not in field service or cart witnessing. There is just something about them, nice, but sort of uptight, like they are filtering every thing you say to make sure you don't contaminate them. I was talking with a couple at a restaurant, they had a hyperactive toddler. I said, don't worry my grandson was just like that, now he is wants to go school to be a minister. She looked uncomfortable and kind of nodded vacantly, so I guessed then. Later I over heard them mention going to "the meeting".
Yup, J-dar
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35
Kick Back and Relax to Some Music
by Finkelstein inthat's right folks time to kick back , pour a cold one and in take in some tunes.. what are you listening to right now ?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu87294pvx8.
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LisaRose
I have Pandora on my Kindle, I usually listen to meditation type music in the evening, it's very relaxing. My favorite artist is Dueter. Last night I hit my Avett brothers station by mistake. I guess the cat has been bored by my meditation music, when she heard the Avett brothers she immediately hopped in my lap and listened attentively, turning her hears back and forth for a good twenty minutes. She likes music and will sit behind the TV with her head on the speakers if there is background music that interests her, but she has been ignoring music on Pandora recently, I guess I need to mix things up a little more.
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Introducing...ME
by Heartsafire inlong time lurker here.
i'm a fifth gen born-in baptized jw.
to say i've been struggling with doubts is an understatement.
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LisaRose
Welcome Heartsafire! Great opening post. You should be proud of yourself for having the courage to seek the truth and go where the evidence lead you. It seems so simple, but the reality is people just don't often do that.
I would encourage you to read "Mistakes were made ( but not by me)" by Carol Travris, to learn about cognitive dissonance and why as humans we tend to discount information that does not confirm our previously held beliefs. It might make you more aware of what will work when talking to your husband. Getting an indoctrinated spouse to see the truth is not easy, some marriages break up, some continue on but divided, a few have gotten a loved one out, you may be able to also. As I am sure you already know, the direct approach does not work.
Lisa 🌹
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Cult or Religion
by Richard C B inwhat is a cult and what is a religion?
its open to debate.
who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?
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LisaRose
If you go to this website you will find that the Watchtower meets every criteria they list. Not that this particular source is the absolute authority on cults, but it's hard to deny that the Watchtower uses the techniques listed there.
Most people think to be a cult means everyone has to live in a commune and wear distinctive clothes. While some cults do that, what defines a cult is the methods they use to retain and control their members that makes it a cult, not the outward appearance.
While you could say every religion is a cult, most mainstream religions do not engage in these practices:
Information control. The Watchtower discourages its members from seeking higher education or reading literature that is critical of the organization. They constantly warn about the dangers of so called apostates, saying they are bitter and angry and tell lies. Any former member who criticizes the Watchtower is considered a "bitter, angry apostae". Most religions have no problem with higher education, reading things not endorsed by them or even talking to former members, even if they are critical of the church.
Relationship control. JWs are discouraged from seeking relationships outside of the organization, they are absolutely forbidden to talk to disfellowshipped former members. The vast majority of religions have no such rules.
Deception. Does the Watchtower tell new recruits that they have incorrectly predicted the end of the world numerous times? Do they tell new recruits they will be disfellowshipped for celebrating Christmas? That they will be expected to shun their children if they do not choose to be JWs if they were ever baptized? Most religions are open about their beliefs, practices and history.
Fear and intimidation. The Watchtower claims to be the sole channel of communication between God and mankind. To disobey them is equated with disobeing God and will result in death at Armageddon and shunning by family and friends. Most churches have no problem if you leave their church and join another. While some may believe in hell fire or that they are the only true church, not all do.
Reporting Structure. Jws are encouraged to report transgressions they know of to the elders. Things told in confidence are shared with other members, judicial committee are formed, the Watchtower is informed in all cases of serious sin, a record is kept on file for years. Individuals are controlled by the elders, the elders report to a circuit overseer, they report to the Watchtower. Meeting schedule and content are tightly controlled by the Watchtower. Kingdom Halls are no longer owned by the congregation, "mother" decides which halls get built, which are sold (all profit to the Watchtower) which get remodeled. Most congregations on other religions have much more autonomy, membership often decides to builds the church and decides who will be their pastor. That pastor decides the content of sermons each week and tailors his services to the needs of the congregation.
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Just me?
by stuffwotifink inmy family are no longer in the shadow of the watchtower.
(2nd generation born in, but only a small family)for that i have to offer my thanks to simon and everyone on this forum whose posts helped expose me to ttatt (i struggle to say quite how much it actually means to me, so i won't say more than, thank you).it all took a year or two, but i've read enough to know that i'm incredibly lucky and that it all happened for me in a very short time.although time turns to syrup when you have to wait.
"expectation postponed..." will the platitudinous catchphrase scriptures ever stop coming to mind?when i started to tell my family some of the things i'd been learning online, they looked at me with no little fear and trepidation.
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LisaRose
You are completely normal, most of us had to find the truth on our own, if anyone had tried to convince me of any of tatt, it would have just made me determined not to listen.
It's partially that the Watchtower conditioned us to fear apostates and partially simple human nature.
Studies have shown that the more people have invested in a choice, the less likely they are to listen to anything negative about it. It's seems we tend to reject anything that would make us think we made a mistake. We decide it must be a lie, or nitpick it, or find fault with their person sharing the information (bitter apostates!) That changes if we start becoming unhappy with the choice and start looking for answers on our own.
That's why it's usually futile to try and get someone to believe negative information about the Watchtower. If you tell them the Watchtower has a problem pedophiles, this creates a state of cognitive dissonance, because to believe the Watchtower knowingly did wrong means they picked the wrong religion. The idea they might have picked wrong religion is painful, so they dismiss the negative information as being unreliable.
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What other Shenanigans can we expect to see in the next 2 years?
by John Aquila inits been a little over 2 years since i left the watchtower.
in that time the magazines have been cut, the birth of jwtv, jw-org.
carts for preaching, removed district overseers, cut assemblies, demand all the money from the congregations, stop construction and layoff bethelites, change the format of the tmschool .
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LisaRose
John Aquila, or anybody really, when I was younger (in the good old days) I used to volunteer at every assembly serving teas & coffee, everyone used to buy tickets at the congregation from the elders, Like $1 = 1 ticket, & so 2 tickets gets you a coffee. I remember 100`s of those tickets going through my hands. Do you think that they were making a profit out of that, charging more for the tickets than was necessary? only there was no choice, no ticket no drink. I remember we all thought how wonderful it was that these things were all being taken care of before hand but now I think about it what difference would it have made, 2 tickets or $2. they were ripping us off weren't they?
Of course they made money on the food. They bought cheap food in enormous quantity, used all volunteer labor and had a captive customer base for the product. They had to give it up because the IRS realized that they were operating a profit making food business. They tried the no-charge-but-hope-people-pay-with-donations, that didn't work, so they stopped food service. There was just no way to make sure that people donated enough for them to make a profit.
I don't believe they will ever give up the door to door work, although they may stop paying living expenses for the special pioneers. They don't care if people waste time knocking on doors, it costs them nothing and they don't give a rat's a## about the personal lives of the pubs, and besides, they are still getting recruits in some countries, they won't give that up. They may change the focus to things that are more profitable, like the carts, but they will not stop door to door, that would raise too many questions.