Posts by LisaRose

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

LisaRose

Is Jehovah real? The the Bible is word? If not whats the alternative? I cant see how any thinking person can believe evolution.

How sad. Do you not realize the Watchtower lied about the evidence for evolution? Please watch this video, it is short and easy to understand and shows how different things all point to the same conclusion.

http://www.upworthy.com/this-should-be-required-viewing-for-deniers-of-evolution

Is God real? I don't see the evidence of it, there are way too many things unexplained by the bible account, too many logical fallacies, too many things that could not have happened the way the bible says.

What is the alternative? How about just be a good person? Why do you need a religion to tell you not to lie, cheat or steal? It's not that difficult, really. Find meaning in your life by being good to others and leaving the earth better off because you were in it, raise responsible children, be kind to your fellow man. Why does their need to be anything more?

Look, religion was invented to make people feel better about their eventual death and to scare people into being moral, so it served a purpose, but we know now there is zero evidence for life after death and so much evidence that man has been a long time on earth, much longer than six thousand years. These is so much evidence of it that to believe otherwise is to foolishly close your eyes to the truth. There have extracted DNA from at least two different groups, genetically close to modern man, but not modern man, and this is supported by other evidence This directly contradicts the bible account, and it would be impossible to fake this evidence.

You can believe in God if it makes you feel better, but something is not true simple because we want it to be true or we don't like the alternative.

238

Another mass shooting, three or four hours ago.

by James Mixon in

san bernardino california.

up to 12 people have been killed.. the center a private non-profit agency that assists people with developmental.

disabilities.

LisaRose

o over all I don't have a problem with what you have suggested as I've heard them before. I'm totally against suing manufacturers because someone was murdered using their gun. If the manufacturer sold the gun to the person then fine, but they don't typically sale to the general public. However it is the retailer that sells the gun and they are held accountable as you have proposed.

What needs to happen is that every gun is tracked from manufacture to sale. If a gun is legally sold by the manufacturerer, then their responsibility ends for that particular gun. But I am not sure there is currently any tracking of guns from manufacture to end user. If large quantities of guns are obtained by terrorists or criminals, then they came from somewhere, I think we need to know how this is happening, who is getting them from where. It's complicated, because guns are manufactured all around the world, and we have no control over other countries, but I am talking specifically about the U.S.. If guns are coming into this country, who is importing them if they are manufactured outside the US? Who is selling them to criminals? The dealers? I don't think we know right now. I think the U.S. is a big enough market to have some clout in enforcing accountability. The gun industry obviously has an interest in selling as many guns as possible, they currently have no incentive to make sure all guns are sold responsibly, in fact the opposite. If a gun maker wants to do business in the US, then they would have to start tracking who they sell to. It's not impossible or unreasonable that something that lethal has to be contained and controlled.

Law was passed in California. I personally don't care but bullet markings will change as the gun is in use so probably in long run won't be of any benefit.

They will change, but I believe it will still be possible to match in many cases. It's like a fingerprint, unique to each gun. The technology is there to do it now, it's just that currently you have to another bullet from the gun to compare with, it just expands on that.

his is a very complicated issue but I understand what your stating. However keep in mind we have HIPAA laws in place. Additionally you are basically requiring the government to keep a database on every person in our country that has any form of mental illness.

We are already doing that in some cases. At least in California, If a person makes a suicide attempt they go on a list to prevent them from buying a gun. This would just tighten that up and expand it, but it wouldn't be for any mental illness, just where there is a good chance that the person could be a danger to themselves or others, which is a very small percentage of people with mental health issues, and they would have a right to a hearing if they felt they were unfairly put on that list. This would not be easy, but it's not impossible and I think this is something that has to happen if we are to make any progress on the gun violence we have in this country.

77

Feeling rejected

by Esmeralda001 in

just a little disclaimer: english isn't my first language (i'm from france) thus the poor writing skills.here is the situation: i'm not a jw.

however, i'm in the process of becoming one.

in fact, i'm studying with the jw's, and i'll proceed to become an unbaptized publisher as soon as i finish the first book.to make a long story short i was introduced to the truth when i was 18een.

LisaRose

I am glad you are going to look into it. I get that it is a blow to find out that many things you believed to be true might be a lie, I was in the religion for thirty years, I was devastated to learn how much I was lied to, it made me feel like an idiot for believing it and wasting so many years. But it is what it is, if the Watchtower has the truth then it should hold up to scrutiny, if it isn't the truth then you need to know, even if it is hard to accept. Jehovah is not served by practicing a lie, and something isn't true just because you want it to be.

Of course they will have we explanations and excuses for all these problems, but you should be able to figure out what the real truth is. Beware of confirmation bias, the human tendency to accept facts that confirm our belief but reject those that contradict them. With your education you probably have better critical thinking skills, so that will help.

Take care and let us know how it goes.

238

Another mass shooting, three or four hours ago.

by James Mixon in

san bernardino california.

up to 12 people have been killed.. the center a private non-profit agency that assists people with developmental.

disabilities.

LisaRose

greater contradiction to me are those who advocate the right to abort 5 month old babies and harvest their body parts as being okay, but want to confiscate firearms from legal gun owners. A majority of American are against late term abortions. How many babies are murdered in America by late term abortions? It is a debate to have in another forum I suppose. Killing is killing whether a gun is used or done by a doctor.

Who says anybody wants to confiscate guns from legal owners? I haven't heard anyone proposing that, at least not anyone in any position to do so, and what has that got to do with abortion anyway? It's two completely different things, talking about selling body parts is just a smoke screen to prop up your argument that we don't need better gun laws because guns aren't much of a problem. Stick to gun issues and debate abortion on another thread.

We licence cars and drivers, because they can be dangerous and there has to be accountability, so I don't see why we shouldn't licence and regulate guns and gun owners just as much. You should have to prove you are intelligent and capable enough to to use a firearm safely by passing a gun safety class every five years so you could get a license to buy or own a gun. All guns should should be registered by the manufacturerer and a bullet test fired so that that gun's unique markings will be on file in case it is ever used in a crime. There has to be accountability, guns should be tracked from manufacture to dealer to end user. Hold manufacturers responsible when their guns end up in the hands of criminals. When a gun is used to a crime it can be traced to the last registered legal owner. Currently gun manufacturers have no incentive to keep track of what they make.

Close the gun show and private sale loophole, all sales should be registered through a neutral third party to verify that it is a legitimate purchase, to a person licenced to own a gun. Gun owners who sell a gun illegally will be held responsible if that gun is later found on someone it is not registered to, or used in a crime. Every gun you own should be registered to you, if one is stolen it would have to be to be reported. There should be rational limits on number of guns, no one needs an arsenal.

People with mental health issues should never be able to obtain a gun. There are some laws in place, but they need to beefed up. I worked with a guy, his wife had mental problems and once threatened to kill herself and their two sons. She was taken to the emergency room but was able to lie her way out of it. They let her go and couldn't notify the husband due to privacy laws. She legally bought a gun the next day and shot herself and her two children. This was a tragedy that could have been prevented. Any health care provider who learns of a credible threat to use a gun should be responsible for reporting that threat, if the person has a gun license it will be immediately suspended, if not they will be restricted from getting one. If they own a gun it will be confiscated by law enforcement until it can be determined that they are not a threat. There should be hearing so that a person can prove they are competent.

I don't understand why gun owners are so reluctant to see reasonable gun regulations. With today's technology it's doable and If you are a law abiding citizen you wouldn't lose your guns and you should be just as motivated as everyone else to keep guns from people who are criminals, mentally ill, or just plain dumb as a box of rocks. Of course I know this wouldn't stop all gun violence, but it sure would be a start.

Gun right advocates keep pretending that this is about taking away all guns when that is not what most people are proposing. And please don't use the slippery slope argument that regulation will lead to confiscation. There is so much paranoia about the government confiscating all guns. If we can't even close the current loopholes, how the hell would we completely outlaw guns?

I saw so many warnings when Obama was elected that he would take away everyone's guns, even though he doesn't have the power to do that on his own and he has never said he wanted to do so and in fact has not attempted that as far as I know, and we are nearing the end of his term. Instead of fighting rational gun control, you should be pushing for it so that we can focus on the other issues that are driving the violence in the U.S. and elsewhere, things like lack of mental health services, lack of drug addiction treatment and illegal immigration issues, no border security, etc.

27

Why didn't Jehovah know the flood wouldn't work?

by OverlappingGeneralizations in

this has been something that is bugging me lately-.

jehovah is all knowing.

he knows that to do away with evil, he has to do away with satan.

LisaRose

There are so many logic errors in the whole flood story you would almost think it's just some kind of made up story and not true at all, lol.

Like, why did God need a flood, he couldn't he have just instantly killed everyone but Noah and his family? He is supposedly all powerful, right? That seems like a lot less work. Or better yet, why not just make them all sterile, that way innocent children wouldn't die, same end result, no unnecessary deaths.

And if the fresh water from the canopy covered the earth, wouldn't the salt water fish all die from the massive infusion of fresh water? And where did that water then go? And how much water would it take to cover mount Everest? Quite a bit I would think, more than actually exists on the earth.

46

The Elders are Coming Help!

by LaurenM in

so the elders keep bugging me and pestering me about having a meeting with them to "introduce me to my new congregation" for some reason (do any ex elders know what that even means??).

i keep postponing and making excuses and they are getting more and more aggressive.

i finally agreed for them to come over today, but really don't want to..should i hide from them again?

LisaRose

Why do you feel you have to give in to them? Demanding to come over is rude, you don't even owe them your valuable time or even an explanation. Don't hide or lie, just say you thought it over and it's not convenient, you will learn them know when it is convenient (which will be a week from never).

77

Feeling rejected

by Esmeralda001 in

just a little disclaimer: english isn't my first language (i'm from france) thus the poor writing skills.here is the situation: i'm not a jw.

however, i'm in the process of becoming one.

in fact, i'm studying with the jw's, and i'll proceed to become an unbaptized publisher as soon as i finish the first book.to make a long story short i was introduced to the truth when i was 18een.

LisaRose

In the bible Jesus says, "by this all will know you are my disciples, that you have love for one another". Think about that. It's not the preaching work, but love that identifies true Christians. Now think about what they teach at the Kingdom Hall. Do they talk about showing love? Do you feel that love? Or do they talk more about the preaching work?

What you are experiencing is what we all experienced as well, this kind of judgmental and critical behavior towards any who are different in any way. They do not approve of higher education, so that sets you apart, they are jealous because you are smarter and better educated. There are some very nice Jehovah's Witnesses, but there are also a lot of petty, mean people, and the religion does nothing to motivate them to be any different, in fact they encourage this judgmental behavior.

You should think about whether you want to spend your life with these people because the reality is that it will always be like this. Your education and income will always set you apart and make people suspicious of you. It's a religion that hates and devalues women, and they do not know what to do with a strong, intelligent woman who is not married.

I suggest you look into this religion more before you commit. There are a lot of things wrong, this is just the tip of the iceberg. They will tell you it's all lies, that we are bitter, angry apostates, but there are things they don't tell you about their history and practices that you can verify, so don't take our word for it, do your own research.

These are the things you should look into:

Their harsh Disfellowshiping practices. If you decide to leave you will be shunned by everyone you know. They say that you can just leave and it's not a problem, but that only works if you don't do anything they consider a sin, like celebrating Christmas, voting or taking a blood transfusion.

They have a history of covering up child sex abuse. Google Candace Conti, or the Australian royal commission on Jehovah's Witnesses and pedophiles.

They have predicted the end of the world many times, most recently in 1975, but also many other dates. They base their chronology on the date for the fall of Jerusalem being 607 BCE, when no reputable biblical scholar supports that date. They used to teach that the generation that was around in 1914 would not pass away before the end of the world. When that didn't happen they redefined "this generation" to mean overlapping generations, which is patently ridiculous.

They are not open about their finances, there is no accountability, if they are honest why are they hiding this information?

Their members have a high rate of depression and suicide.

You are obviously very intelligent, I think if you do some basic research you will figure this out.

Lisa 🌹

33

Why do girls have a hymen?

by JWchange in

if you believe humans evolved, and were not created, why would having a hymen help, especially as no other mammal has one?

if you believe humans were created by {a} god, or intelligent beings with advanced technology, what was the reason for a hymen?

i'm interested to hear your thoughts on this unusual subject, not many people talk about..

LisaRose

Not everything has a purpose, some things are a leftover prior functions, it may be that the hymen served some purpose in one of our genetic ancestors.

There is a thread I started on the evolution of whales that shows that the fins of a whale have all the same basic bones of a human arm and hand, elbow joint, five digits on each fin with their joints, etc. The whale doesn't use those joints, not as we do anyway, but at one time one of their ancestors did. Also they have two openings in the nasal passages, but no longer have nostrils, instead they have a blow whole.

77

In The Name of Love, Need Your Opinion

by thankyou in

i'm non-jw.. been following this forum.

most of you folks have been through hell, but are still loving souls.

i'm reeeally impressed and glad to be here.. my question is at the end of this.

LisaRose

They usually get frustrated with the lack of desirable dating prospects in their religion, so are tempted by someone they meet through work or whatever and have a relationship and get married. They may even leave the religion because of it, but soon feel guilty and go back. You can't be disfellowshipped for marrying outside of the religion, but you can be for having sex outside of marriage, which is pretty common when it's a non JW relationship. But even if you are disfellowshipped, you can go back and get reinstated if you act like you are sorry and are willing to sit at the Kingdom Hall like a pariah for a year with no one talking to you. At that point you are married and there is nothing they can do about it.

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

LisaRose

You bring up a good point, but the problem is that this organization is completely opaque when it comes to financials, so impossible to say where the money is going. If the Watchtower is being completely honest and above board with the money, why are they so secretive? As the saying goes, follow the money.

The Watchtower always made a big deal about the fact that their leaders live just like everyone else at Bethel, and that could be true, but it could just be misdirection and they could also have private estates somewhere, you just don't know. The reality is that people in power that have access to large sums of of money will figure out some way to personally benefit from that money more often than not, and they have certainly shown a pattern of lies and deceit in everything else, so why should the money be any different?

Their recent behavior is highly suspect. They sold a lot of very valuable property and yet only a few years later are cancelling building projects, cutting down on magazine printing and getting rid of people. They have always used the preaching work and magazine publishing as proof they are the only religion doing God's will, so after all this time why are they suddenly doing an about face? Something is going on and you know somehow money is a big part of it.