Posts by LisaRose

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

LisaRose

irst of all by definition a legal case can only be won or loss in a court case. I never said it was right. I present actual facts. Like court after Court judges have ruled that watchtower does not have a fiduciary duty to publishers, the duty to protect or warn. Everyone here can argue if those things are either correct or should be over turned but that doesn't negate that those are the facts atleast in the US. It is part of American law that a person doesn't have to protect a third party if they have no legal duty to do so. Again I in no way says that is right or wrong. But that is facts of the law

I agree that The Watchtower is not legally responsible in every case of child abuse. But these cases are not all as black and white as you seem to think. New legal arguments are made all the time, sometimes the courts agree and sometimes they do not, that is how it works. People said the Candace Conti case would never win, I didn't even think there much of chance, but although part of it was overturned (and rightly so in my opinion), part of it has not been overturned, at least not yet.

So why do you have a problem with people suing the Watchtower when they believe they have been wronged? They have the legal right, as does anyone to use the court system when they believe they have been wronged. As the saying goes "anyone can use anyone else over anything". If they don't have a case, it won't get anywhere, so where is the harm? The Watchtower has plenty of money, it isn't hurting them any, its the cost of doing business for them. Yes, people here do not like the Watchtower and we do know that many times they hide child abuse, so yeah we are going to side with innocent victims rather than an organization that has hurt us in so many ways. What else would you expect? The organization needs to change and they won't do so until they are forced to do so, anything that moves things along in that direction is to the good in my opinion.

The more important question is why you are more sympathetic to an organization with a history of covering up child sex abuse than to innocent victims.

207

Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver in

i have two honest questions for everyone here.

i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

LisaRose

No one really knows how many cases are won or lost because often these kind of issues are settled out of court, in fact that is how the organization prefers it, so they can maintain the fiction that these things rarely happen in their "spiritual paradise". That is part of the problem, that they give their members a false sense of safety within the congregations, people are very trusting and congregation elders have a great deal of authority. These things make for a pedophiles paradise.

It's true that these cases are often not won, as I am sure is the cases in many cases of this kind, whether against the Catholic church or any other organization. The age of the victims, the fact that evidence is hard to come by and the nature of the crime make it so. That does not mean that a wrong wasn't done, it just means that the deck is stacked against the victim, a fact that the Watchtower is happy to exploit.

The Watchtower is not at fault every time a Jehovah's Witness commits such a crime, but very often these cases could have been prevented if the Watchtower would take proper precautions, and when they are at fault they should pay the price. A child who has had their innocence stolen because the Watchtower did not take common sense precautions has every right to sue. There are many things they could do to help make sure they aren't contributing to the problem:

Elders should be trained to recognize the signs of abuse, and how to talk to abuse victims.
Child victims should never, ever be forced to confront their abuser
The local authorities should be contacted in every case of suspected abuse, not just where it is a legal requirement. Elders are not qualified to judge whether abuse has actually taken place. Why does it take a law for the Watchtower to do the right thing?
A person who has sexually molested a child should never be put in any position of authority, elder or MS, ever.
Parents should be informed that their is always the possibility of child abusers in the organization, and that they should not automatically trust someone with their child just because they are a Jehovah's Witness.
A woman who is married to an abuser should not be pressured to stay in the marriage, the elders should help her protect her children.
A person with a history of child sex abuse should not be allowed to go in the ministry or conduct bible studies. If such a person becomes close to families with children the elders should take them aside and let them know of the problem.

These are just common sense precautions that would go a long way in preventing problems. That the Watchtower refuses to do them shows how little they care about innocent children and how greatly they care about their image.

I have seen first hand how the organization fails to protect children. My good friend had a son who was molested by a young Jehovah's Witness brother. He confessed and was reproved. Less that a year later he became engaged to a woman with young children. My friend was concerned because this woman was unaware of his history, so she informed her. My friend got in trouble with the elders and was told if she didn't shut up about the abuse she would be disfellowshipped. This kind of willful stupidity is inexcusable.

27

Here's a morbid thought...

by Rainbow_Troll in

it probably will never happen but... imagine the gb recieved some new light that told them the great tribulation was imminent.

the world is going to hell and all jws can expect until armageddon is terrible persecution the likes of which no christian has ever experienced in two thousand years.

but jehovah has a solution: put yourself and your family 'to sleep' and after armageddon's over, jehovah will 'wake his people up' at the resurrection.

LisaRose

There are probably some who have followed the Watchtower's flawed logic and saw suicide as being a shortcut to the new system, but only if they were seriously disturbed to begin with. the problem is that suicide, per Watchtower teaching, is considered a serious sin and anyone deliberately engaging in such a serious sin might not be eligible to be resurrected.

30

Is it morally wrong to put Watchtower behind?

by Darkknight757 in

with our latest and final run in with the elders, the wife and i had a very long talk about what's next in our life.

do we try to help others see the light as it were concerning watchtower or do we just let it go and move on with our life?

we have made it perfectly clear that we will never go back to watchtower and we are finally happy.

LisaRose

It's not only not wrong to leave the Watchtower behind its probably the only realistic route open to you.You might think that it's possible to help others get out, but the reality is that in the vast majority of cases it's not possible. It's the nature of cults that people will not leave until they are ready no matter what information you share with them, so walk away in good conscience.

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

LisaRose

I think we have all had to face this problem at one time or another. Every one's circumstances are different and there are downsides to whatever choice you make either way, so only you can decide what would be best but I have to say in your situation I would probably lean towards getting reinstated and then fading, if only because it would get your parents off your back while you finish school and get established in a career. When you are older they will probably be a bit more tolerant of you making your own decisions,vespecially of you are just fading.

30

New member

by NinaCee in

jw
friends

i did not see a newbs thread to introduce myself, so my apologies if i'm in the wrong place.

i was a 3rd generation born in witness for 30 years until i was disfellowshipped back in 2007 for making a mistake.

my entire life up until that point was based on and circled around the society, and even though at first i really enjoyed my freedom (i still do), the fact is that i'm still struggling with cognitive dissonance, resentment, and loneliness.. i miss my family all the time.

LisaRose

Welcome NinaCee, thanks for sharing your story.

Losing your entire extended family is going to be a blow no matter the reason, my heart goes out to you. Even though you know you could never stomach going back it's always going to hurt a bit being separate from your family. I hope you keep trying to make new friends though. The reality is that friends do come and go even without the complications of the religion, I have lost friends myself a few times do to job changes, moves, etc. Being an introvert and not working anymore it's hard to make new friends these days, so I can relate to what you are going through.

28

Greetings and would like some advice about a potentially fun idea

by towerwatcher in

jw
friends

hello fellow apostates!

my first post and a long time lurker here.

i would like to thank all of you for the existence of this board as this has been instrumental for me in leaving the place i once knew as "the truth".

LisaRose

It would be better to do shirts that would be a parody of these books. That way you wouldn't be as likely to run into copyright infringement. Personally I wouldn't walk around in a shirt with a Watchtower publication in the front unless it was making a derogatory statement of some kind.

There have been a lot of threads where people were making funny, fake Watchtower covers, you might want to look at those for ideas.

24

black dog comes to visit

by zeb in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

once again my depression has got the better of me and i must bow out for a time.. "the angels sang glory to god in the highest and on earth peace unto men of goodwill'.

so if that means at this special time of the year then have a happy and safe christmas time all of you.. hugs.

LisaRose

I get mid winter depression, I am well acquainted with the black dog myself. I know that in time it will get better, as it always does each year. Hang in there my friend.

64

Mass JW exodus

by stockholm_Syndrome in

maybe there will be a mass exodus from jws when thinking people read feb 2017 watchtower telling them the governing body stuff up, shouldnt expect correct/ perfect information and basically make up guff as they see fit.....ya reckon?.

LisaRose

There will be no mass exodus because most JWs are not inclined to question anything, no matter how cultish it sounds. the only people who leave will be those that were already questioning things and see it as the last straw.

22

1st christmas ever

by notalone in

jw
friends

so, i am around 50,4th gen born in- christmas.

strange thing this christmas thing.

i've been watching people this year, really watching them.

LisaRose

I hope you have a wonderful first Christmas. It's so sad that such an innocent thing has been so demonized by the organization that the thought that a person might put up a tree is considered a scandal, a major sin. It's a celebration!

I'll never forget the first time I celebrated, it was wonderful. Christmas morning the doorbell rang at 8:00 AM, my husband goes to get it and yells out "Babe, come down, Santa is here!". I go downstairs and sure enough, the fat man is in my living room. We had a Christmas gift get hung up at the post office (they sent a notice, but it slipped behind a table so we didn't see it). A wonderful mail carrier made it his job to deliver all the post packages dressed as Santa. We gave him some cookies and he went on his way.

I'm pretty excited about Christmas this year because my step son, his wife and our adorable two year old granddaughter are coming. We have three grandchildren between us, but unfortunately they all live out of state, so we don't often get to celebrate with any of them.