LisaRose

Joined

• started 38 topics
• posted 6,078 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by LisaRose

• 
  19

  Pull the Plug Already...

  by megaboy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  after reading and seeing so many detailings of the dealings with people in this religion, i have to wonder how to get people who are just extremely asleep.

  reasoning doesn't seem like it works, there needs to be some kind of plug pull event, like the leaders doing something so uterly stupid that it causes the immediate downfall of the entire religion.

  but because i am naturally curious i want to know from people who have more experience with jw structure why they seem to have a resistance to an event like this?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Something troubling happens in the organization. Brother Sheepy wonders about troubling information, but the idea that this means that this is not "the truth" is scary. Brother Sheepy would have to leave and loose all friends and family, possibly his employment. He would have to admit to non JW acquaintances that he made a huge mistake and has been wrong about everything. The cognitive dissonance is strong, the idea is unacceptable to him, so he reasons that it is just a trick of Satan, it must be a trick of Satan, the brothers said that would happen. It's far easier to grasp at that thin explanation than question everything you know, it's human nature.

  Even in cults where the leader made a specific date prediction that turned out not to be true, most people stayed. One group spent the night on a roof, convinced the end was going to happen. In the morning everyone got down off the roof and pretended nothing happened, most did not leave the group. That's why 1975 did not result in a mass exedus, but a trickling away over the next twenty years.

  You have to already be questioning for these things to have any effect. If you think back to your own questioning, did the first bit of suspect information cause you to go, or did it take some time? For me it was a number of things over a number of years, until one day I had an epiphany, a brilliant glimpse of the obvious, the Governing Body was just making stuff up, just like every other religion.
• 
  58

  Non JW wife/JW husband Christmas tree debate

  by spacegirl443 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first post here and looking for advice and help.

  sorry in advance for it being so long :(.

  i'm a happily married woman (no kids) who is a non-jw, presbyterian to be precise.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Yes, he is supposed to allow you your tree, although why any person would ever feel that it is up to him to "allow" you to put up a tree or not is crazy to me. Do you throw away his Watchtowers? Why should he throw away your posessions?

  When you got together he wasn't a JW, so he is the one that changed not you, so why should you be expected to make all the compromises?

  But unfortunately that is the situation, he is in a cult and that cult will dictate his choices from now on, all you can do is decide if this is something you can live with.
• 
  28

  Should I stay or should I go?

  by BlackWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone, i haven't posted anything on here for a while and today i just really felt like i needed to get my thoughts together.

  (if you don't know me please read some of my previous posts).

  so pretty much not much has changed in my life, i'm still living with my parents and going to all the meetings and service.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  I would stay where you will have better educational opportunities, with your parents. It might be tempting to go with your aunt, but that is a very short term improvement, in the long run you will be happy you stuck it out
• 
  8

  New job blues

  by Jayk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  finally just got a really good job, i'm learning a trade and i love it.. its been a long time coming without any help from my family.

  i'm in my late 20s finally about to be able to provide for myself.

  it feels great but i still feel in missing something.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Of course you feel like something is missing, you just lost your family because of the religion, a job isn't going to replace that, even for an introvert.

  It will get easier as time goes on, you will make friends and eventually have a family of your own. For now just focus on putting one foot in front of the other and take advantage of any opportunities to meet new people.
• 
  19

  Bought My First Christmas Tree Last Night

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  last year i didn't bother with christmas as it still felt like a "nothing" day to me (thanks watchtower!).

  this is the 2nd christmas since waking up and leaving the cult and i've finally bought my first christmas tree:).

  i have no idea what to do with it though.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Decorating the tree is one of my favorite things to do. Every ornament has a memory of the year I bought it, they are like old friends at this point. I always put on nice Christmas music and just enjoy the decorating process. You should go with your little one and help her pick out her own first ornament, that way you will both have a nice thing to remember in the future. Don't be surprised if it's ugly though, three year olds sometimes have questionable taste.
• 
  37

  My Cognitive Dissonance is Eating Me Alive (Intro Post)

  by pometerre21 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been lurking here for a couple of weeks now.

  i'm starting to "awaken" and it is all that has been occupying my mind.

  i've always, always had doubts, some of which i expressed to family members who always had the same replies:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Welcome

  You are only conflicted now because of years of them telling you that only they have "the truth" that only they do this or that. Get away from it for a few months and you would be surprised at how much clearer everything becomes. The reality is that most of their teachings do not stand up to scrutiny and they have lied about their history.

  As to peace and love, I personally didn't see it, nor many others. I have since visited other churches and found them to be much more caring to fellow members. Do they visit sick people, take them meals? Do they go to the nursing homes to visit anyone? Other religions do this.

  Unified? I guess, but that unity is based on a strict control over what people think, do and say, and based on seven man's thoughts and whims. How much of what they require is not actually found in the bible? Sure they can pull scriptures out to justify just about anything, but that doesn't make it right, they are cherry picking to justify their intent.

  The preaching work? How effective is it really? Virtually no one in China and other parts of the earth have ever heard of the religion. Even in areas where there are more JWs, most people know nothing of the beliefs, only that they stand around by a literature cart and don't celebrate christmas, so how effective is it really? Most JWS know this, which is why most service is perfunctory, for the minimum amount they can get away with.

  Keep asking questions, only an organization with something to hide is afriad of them.
• 
  78

  Work Christmas functions: Being a Bible Student (unbaptized)

  by rulehayl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all,i have been studying with the witnesses for more than 6 months and regularly attend both midweek & weekend meetings, and i am nearly at the end of the "bible teach" book.

  my boss is adamant i attend team christmas functions.

  she knows about my studying and potential baptism next year, and has suggested that i attend and just not participate in activities like kris kringle.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Ah, the old "slippery slope" argument. Just one example of the many logical fallacies they use.

  You had already decided that attending a team function would be acceptable to you, but your study leader tried to undermine your own conscience by imposing his idea of what you should do. Why even have your own conscience, if all you need to do is slavishly follow a bunch of rules? Be advised that if you formally join this religion your life will be all about just that. If you later decide you do not want to follow these rules you will be subject to being disfellowshipped and shunned by everyone you know. Celebrating Christmas is a serious offence in this group.

  This organization likes to pretend you can follow your own conscience, but they only allow that in really minor situations, and even then people in the group tend to nitpick and gossip about it.

  Really, whether you celebrate holidays is not that important. What is more important is this organization's determination to control every aspect of their members lives. Is that something you can live with? Even more concerning is their continued teaching that Armageddon is coming any minute, something they have been claiming for over a hundred years. They have falsely predicted dates for the end many, many times, so far they have a 100% failure rate on predictions. Why believe them now? Because world conditions are so bad? Every generation believed that.

  I was a JW back in the seventies. I was told in the Awake magazine that a young person, (which I was at the time) would never have time for a career in this system of things. I believed that and skipped college, which I now regret, as I am old enough to collect social security now.

  I would hate for anyone else to fall for this, so please investigate this religion thoroughly before you commit. Don't believe the line that Satan is trying to receive you and that only information from the Watchtower can be trusted. That's what organizations do when they have something to hide, right? You seem like you have a good head on your shoulders, trust your instincts and don't let others manipulate you, because that it's the true "slippery slope".
• 
  12

  So, is it the publicity, or act itself that "brings reproach on Jehovah's name"?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as we all sadly know, a common expression used by the society and elders in cases of abuse, or scandals, is "if you talk about this, you will bring reproach on jehovah's name!".

  this is uttered in order to deter making something known.. but really, if it is a case of abuse, is not the act itself the thing that brings "reproach on jehovah"?.

  making it known is not the problem.. rather hiding it, or not disclosing it to authorities is the thing that brings reproach!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  If an organization has to resort to hiding the truth and silencing victims, it has already lost all integrity, especially since they have criticized the Catholic church for years for the exact same behavior.

  Their hypocrisy is what brings reproach.
• 
  84

  Spirit Channeling at Wallkill's Bethel

  by Marie33 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  look what an ex-bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at wallkill:.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmqnzbyrko.

  now i believe rayven's story of horror at brooklyn bethel:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Sounds like this guy just went from one conspiracy theory (The devil is out to get you, only the Watchtower can save you) to another (The demons are controlling the Watchtower). People can "channel spirits" all they want, it's nothing but channeling their own misguided thoughts back to them selves. People can delude themselves in a lot of ways, it's kind of amazing really.

  I once worked with a guy who had conversations with a "being from another dimension". It scared me at the time because I was a JW, I thought he was talking to a demon, now I know the guy was just batty, but also funny. He once sang me The Blue Bird of Happiness in its entirety. He used to call me Lumpy, so I asked him why, since I was a skinny young thing at the time. He said I was the kind of woman who gets lumpy when I'm older and he was right.
• 
  12

  I'm coming back to the forum after 10 months, and new challenges...

  by Mandrake in

  1. social
  2. family

  i haven't been here for about 10 months and just looked over some topics to update myself, well i came back for a very particular reason... my family was, father, mother, sister and i... the split up (4 years ago), only my father remained jw, my sister left but lives with him, and i've been living by myselft over the last months sharing an apartment with my girlfriend (worldly) an his brother (worldly) (we are a "modern family" hahahaha).... so the relation with my father have been in many different phases the last 4 years, having in mind that he cheated my mom with her best friend (woman) within the congregation an married her just few months ago... so today it's my birthday and i called dad and told him that i had a great time anyway and that to be "even more pagan" i set up my christmas tree today.... he had never questioned me for dating and living with my current girfriend nor tried to "bring me back to the congregation", but he replied to me: "hey, talking about being a pagan, i'm not confortable with things now because i want us to como closer together again and do more things like having lunch or whathever and your are now df, can you talk to the elders and take back the letter you sent them da-ing so we can share more?".

  i don't know what to do, i really mean what i wrote in my d.a.

  letter, i needed to vent what i think of the borg now, i'm no way taking it back, those are like my luther's theses ... i can't believe my father divorced my mother on no biblical ground, continued dating her best jw friend, and 3 years later they got married and are a happy respectable "christian" couple... and now he suddendly is not confortable with me because i sent a letter to the elders telling them i no longer believed the same shit they do... my sister simply stopped attending meetings and dated worldly boys, celebrate xmas, birthdays and stuff, but with me is different just because i have a clearer idea of who i really am and i'm trying to live by that.. i thinks this whole thing is unfair, he is totally blackmailing me, it's been years to get to this friendly level with my father, and now he is adding this awful pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Ask your father if he wants you to lie, because that is what he is asking you to do. Ask him if he is really taking the moral high ground here if he is going to shun you for telling the truth about what you believe.