Posts by LisaRose

5

Just me?

by stuffwotifink in

my family are no longer in the shadow of the watchtower.

(2nd generation born in, but only a small family)for that i have to offer my thanks to simon and everyone on this forum whose posts helped expose me to ttatt (i struggle to say quite how much it actually means to me, so i won't say more than, thank you).it all took a year or two, but i've read enough to know that i'm incredibly lucky and that it all happened for me in a very short time.although time turns to syrup when you have to wait.

"expectation postponed..." will the platitudinous catchphrase scriptures ever stop coming to mind?when i started to tell my family some of the things i'd been learning online, they looked at me with no little fear and trepidation.

LisaRose

You are completely normal, most of us had to find the truth on our own, if anyone had tried to convince me of any of tatt, it would have just made me determined not to listen.

It's partially that the Watchtower conditioned us to fear apostates and partially simple human nature.

Studies have shown that the more people have invested in a choice, the less likely they are to listen to anything negative about it. It's seems we tend to reject anything that would make us think we made a mistake. We decide it must be a lie, or nitpick it, or find fault with their person sharing the information (bitter apostates!) That changes if we start becoming unhappy with the choice and start looking for answers on our own.

That's why it's usually futile to try and get someone to believe negative information about the Watchtower. If you tell them the Watchtower has a problem pedophiles, this creates a state of cognitive dissonance, because to believe the Watchtower knowingly did wrong means they picked the wrong religion. The idea they might have picked wrong religion is painful, so they dismiss the negative information as being unreliable.

94

What other Shenanigans can we expect to see in the next 2 years?

by John Aquila in

its been a little over 2 years since i left the watchtower.

in that time the magazines have been cut, the birth of jwtv, jw-org.

carts for preaching, removed district overseers, cut assemblies, demand all the money from the congregations, stop construction and layoff bethelites, change the format of the tmschool .

LisaRose

John Aquila, or anybody really, when I was younger (in the good old days) I used to volunteer at every assembly serving teas & coffee, everyone used to buy tickets at the congregation from the elders, Like $1 = 1 ticket, & so 2 tickets gets you a coffee. I remember 100`s of those tickets going through my hands. Do you think that they were making a profit out of that, charging more for the tickets than was necessary? only there was no choice, no ticket no drink. I remember we all thought how wonderful it was that these things were all being taken care of before hand but now I think about it what difference would it have made, 2 tickets or $2. they were ripping us off weren't they?

Of course they made money on the food. They bought cheap food in enormous quantity, used all volunteer labor and had a captive customer base for the product. They had to give it up because the IRS realized that they were operating a profit making food business. They tried the no-charge-but-hope-people-pay-with-donations, that didn't work, so they stopped food service. There was just no way to make sure that people donated enough for them to make a profit.

I don't believe they will ever give up the door to door work, although they may stop paying living expenses for the special pioneers. They don't care if people waste time knocking on doors, it costs them nothing and they don't give a rat's a## about the personal lives of the pubs, and besides, they are still getting recruits in some countries, they won't give that up. They may change the focus to things that are more profitable, like the carts, but they will not stop door to door, that would raise too many questions.

8

Regarding changes and my poor mother!

by username in

well i just got off the phone with mother (thankfully she has no part in the shunning policy) and she thinks the changes are "marverless" this i would imagine is the general consensus of most hardcore rank and file!

she is even investing in a roku device so she can watch more indoctrination programming.

to be honest i wouldn't even try make her think, because she has far to much invested in the cult.

LisaRose

I am reading a book that was mentioned here a few days ago called Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me. It explains why people tend to stay with a decision, even when they come across contradictory information. The more they have invested in a decision, the more they defend it and resist information that doesn't mesh.

They took two groups of college freshmen and put them through an initiation into a fraternity. One group had an easy initiation, the other group had one that was much more difficult. The difficult group were much more enthusiastic about their fraternity, more dedicated to it and less likely to notice or mention faults than the other group.

This is why it's so futile to attempt to get someone to leave the Watchtower, mist have too much invested. Most people have given up a lot to be JWs, this fact alone binds them to the religion, even when it makes no logical sense. It takes something fairly drastic to make a JW consider leaving the group. They have to be treated very unfairly, or have a family member treated unfairly, or face a personal crisis of some sort.

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

LisaRose

I used to do very technical, complicated work, writing programs to determine overbilling issues and correctly credit people who were overcharged. It was stressful, because a mistake could cost the company I worked for money, potentially large sums of money, the billing system was complex, convoluted really, overbilling could potentially run into the millions, my work was audited, but those audits were limited by the skill of the auditors.

The only way I could sleep at night was to give it my best, use all the skills and knowledge I possessed, work hard, and then stop worrying about it. At the end of the day, if mistakes were made, I would know that I did the best I could, given the limits of my knowledge, skills and abilities and the challenges inherent in the job.

That is how I feel about belief in God. I did my best to look at all available evidence and made a rational decision based on where the evidence led me. I found the evidence for God was lacking. If there is a God, and he judges me unkindly for making the best decision I could make, then he is not a fair and just God, and therefore not actually God, or not a God I could worship.

37

This morning's magazine trolley encounter..

by GodZoo in

was just out shopping and came across two middle aged female witnesses with their magazine trolley..

i approached them and they were all glee and smiles and ready to hand me a couple of magazines.

one moment ladies i have just a couple of questions..

LisaRose

I understand your feelings tornapart, but you have to realize these women are not innocent in all this. They are choosing to publicly support a religion that they don't really know anything about, one that hurts people in a very real and serious way. Their feelings were hurt for a few minutes, but they have a choice now, stay and support this cancer of a religion or leave and free themselves and not risk dragging other innocent people into it.

21

On a need to know basis - The Letter

by no-zombie in

we've just had our sunday meeting and the letter was read out to the congregation.. however, there was no mention of the bethel lay-offs or the building program shut-downs.. looks like we are on a need to know basis, here in australia..

LisaRose

Perhaps it would be good if those who still attend meetings could spread the word about the Bethel layoffs and construction stops. It is being talked about on the pro JW discussion sites, so it's not like it would make people wonder where they got the information. Everyone loves a good piece of gossip, especially if it seems like insider information.

This cult is run on secrecy, it's time people in the organization find out what has been going on. That information alone will not make anybody wake up, but it's a piece of the puzzle that might make people more aware that things are not all as perfect as they pretend. If I were still in, I would wonder why it isn't being discussed openly. If it's a sign that the end is nigh, and more focus is being put on the field ministry, why isn't the Watchtower talking about it? If the field ministry is now so much more important, why are the rank and file not being told?

49

New member checking in

by Old Major in

jw
friends

been reading for about 2 and a half years, thought i would take the plunge and sign up.. my circumstances... i live in uk, serving as ms. i am fully awake.

i can not leave due to family, so just treating the meetings as a bit of a social club.

i would like to give out more details, but i think you all know the drill.. complete disillusionment and i suppose natural curiosity woke me up.. don't know what else to say right now, just hello, and i hope to get to know some of you guys better.

LisaRose

Welcome, glad you could join us.

Lisa 🌹

21

Top three reason for it to be cult and/or not the true religion.

by Powermetal4ever in

jw
friends

alright, i want everyone to list your top three reasons for jw to be cult and/or not the true religion.

1.you can't look, or wear whatever you want.. 2. blah.

3. blah.

LisaRose

1) Their practice of shunning, which breaks up families and causes severe harm to some, including suicides. Showing no mercy or concern for those who have mental issues or other problems, being more concerned with punishment than healing or care.

2) Their glorification of ignorance by insisting the bible is literal, and that we didn't evolve, despite the mountain of scientific evidence that we did, also their ridiculous restrictions on higher education.

3) Pretending they know when Armageddon will come, despite multiple failed predictions in the past, convincing people to make life changing decisions based on those predictions, then refusing to take any responsibility for it. Doctrine flip flops, especially the generation doctrine, which has been redefined to the point of being absurd.

12

Meditation linked to increased age, health, and smarts?

by EndofMysteries in

i recently read how advanced meditation increases the brains waves, higher frequency alpha waves which is linked to higher state of consciousness and intelligence.

now i saw this article, http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/10/health/can-meditation-really-slow-aging/index.html?hpt=hp_c3 that it also increases life and health, etc.

i haven't really read or researched meditation but i was wondering if anybody has got into it, into a 'non religious' aspect of it.

LisaRose

I feel that formal meditation is not for everyone. But, rather, that meditation can be found in listening to music, playing an instrument, knitting, lying on a beach reading a book, working out or running or climbing. The mind can enter a phase of focus or non-focus, depending on you and your needs.

It's true, any hobby you do that is deeply engrossing to you can give you some of the benefits of meditation. But I find if I really want to get into a deep meditation, which is where I see the biggest improvement, I need to do do at least some the real deal.

18

I gotta ask,... Is the org gonna fade from itself and just take what money that is left and run?

by gda in

jw
friends

i just can't shake this odd thought...

LisaRose

They are nothing without their power over people's lives. I don't think money was ever the main motive, it's about power and prestige. They are not going anywhere, I think they would rather be demi-gods in the small pond of JW Dom than wealthy nobodies.