Posts by LisaRose

23

Basic training for jihadists

by barry in

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcbqlgkymkw

Jewish people believe in ritual circumcision, they have a ceremony and the baby has his foreskin cut off, something that is very painful and mutilates the penis, and has no particular health value, according to many experts.

I am not trying to say that this is evil, or an indication that the Jews are barbaric, (I circumcised my own son, although I wouldn't make the same decision now) but trying to put this in perspective. We tend to excuse the ancient customs that we are comfortable and familiar with and demonize those of other groups, that seem strange and threatening. Both the bible and the Quran have things that are disturbing to most people today, because they were written in a different time.

I don't like the radical aspects of Islam, and I am an Atheist. But I see a huge difference between radical Islam and the majority of Muslims. Yes, there are disturbing things in the Quran, but that doesn't mean every Muslim believes in a literal interpretation of it, anymore than all Jews stone people, even though the bible approves of it. If you condemn an entire religion for the actions of a small percentage of them, then you are creating enmity of a very large group of people, when it is only some of them that are threatening you. This is not only stupid, but counterproductive. Attempting to ban Islam will cause all Muslims to side with the radicals and you will then have a much bigger problem to deal with.

It makes me sad to see the rampant racism and hatred that is flourishing now, because of these attacks of terrorism. There is far more at work here than the influence of Islam. Many of the adherents of radical Islam are not especially religious, the religion is just an excuse for their alienation and hatred of western society and their desire to be a martyr. I don't know what the solution is, but I know that racial and religious intolerance is not the solution.

55

SHUNNING - Unchristian Psychological Torture

by EdenOne in

some time ago, i wrote an extensive article on shunning and published it on my website.

since that website had views on doctrinal matters that no longer reflect my current stand, i took the website down.

however, my views on this matter are still current, and for the benefit of everyone here, i'm going to post the article here.

LisaRose

Even if you accept that the scriptures approve of shunning, you have a hard time proving that the bible ever mentions or suggested shunning as practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses.

The bible doesn't say that any secret committees is to be formed, that three elders decide on who should be shunned, that what three elders decide determines that a person's family and friends have to shun him. What the bible suggests is, that if there is someone is called a brother, but is known to do these non christian things, you would not talk to them. It's quite simple really, two things have to be true, they claim to be a brother and they are KNOWN to do these Christian things.

It says nothing about leaving Christianity and then living a non Christian life. It says that a person has to be "one called a brother". The elders have been known to come after people years after leaving. What is the scriptural basis of that? It says nothing about a formal committeee. "Judicial committee" is not in the bible. Disfellowshipped is not in the bible. Shunning is not in the bible. It says nothing about a Christian leaving a Christian religion for another Christian religion.

I believe the intent, what they are saying, is if you know of someone calling themself Christian, and you know that they are doing these wrong things, then you would not have anything to do with them. It doesn't mean that they do things that your particular flavor of Christianity believes is wrong, it means a liar, an adulterer, things condemned in the bible. Early Christians had disagreements, it didn't mean they were shunned. Therefore It doesn't mean you get shunned because you don't believe some arbitrary group of men (like the governing body). If one could disagree with an apostle, what makes the elders or even the GB so sacred you must obey them?

It doesn't mean you get shunned for celebrating Christmas, that isn't mentioned in the bible. Or birthdays, or voting, or serving in the military or any of dozens of things you can be shunned for by the JWs.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have twisted the scripture to mean something never envisioned by early Christians. It wasn't to used to coerce people to stay in the church, it was meant to stop hypocrisy. It was to be decided at an individual level, when and if you knew of such sin, they were known to do such things. It wasn't an excuse for elders to question a person about their most intimate secrets, to pry, to condemn, to pronounce judgement. What the elders do is evil, they improperly decide on motive, determine repentance and pronounce judgement, which is only between a person and God. As the bible says, all have sinned and fallen short, so who are the elders to judge?

The worst thing about the Disfellowshiping process is that not only do they cut you off from your family and friends, they tell you that Jehovah doesn't hear your prayers. Can you imagine? Is it any wonder some who were disfellowshipped go on to commit suicide? Who are they to presume to speak for God? They are just men who can be wrong. We know elders sometimes sit on committee's when they themselves are involved in serious sins such as pedophilia and long term adultery. How could someone like that be doing anything approved by God? They supposedly are guided by God's spirit, but how could that be if the elder is involved in such conduct himself? What did Jesus say about the prostitute? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Those words of forgiveness and compassion mean something, something the Watchtower ignores.

No, the bible does not justify what the Watchtower does, which is to break up families, hurt people who are going through difficult times and shut down those with valid concerns, all to protect the hierarchy of a cult.

155

Survey: How long were you in the cult vs what year you were baptized

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

hi people,.

i want as much data as possible on the effect of the internet on the time captured by the cult.. please answer the three following questions about yourself or about someone you know (for example, if your parents or grandparents were jw's and left).

1) were you raised as a jw, or did you convert?.

LisaRose

1) Converted at 13 along with my parents

2)Baptized in 1969

3)left in late1999

Thirty years a Watchtower slave (lol , there was a book written by that name in the fifties or sixties, we were warned about the bitter, evil apostate thing)

31

Obama to speak from the Oval Office tonight (8:00 eastern)

by Coded Logic in

this will be only the 3rd time he's spoken from the oval office in his seven years so it's probably going to be something pretty big.

combat troops being sent into syria?

unilateral movement on gun control?.

LisaRose

CNN says it will be Sunday night, to addresses the terror threats.

17

JW Sites?

by EternalPettingZoo in

long time lurker who just created an account.

i was raised a witness, never dunked, have new jw bride ( why u ask?

um... i do love her, just not the dub side, which is raising its little head more and more now) and a little 5 month old that i would like to have other options in life than a full time pioneer married to a 23 year old ms who works for his daddy's janitor business.

LisaRose

Sometimes the most effective thing is to ask a JW to explain something, then raise questions. A lot of the logic falls apart if you question it. You have to be very careful to not arouse the cult mind set, open challenges dont work unless they are already questioning. Pay attention if you go to meetings to find things to ask about, ask her to explain it.

Use the bible, there are a lot of scriptures the organization avoids because it conflicts with what they teach. For example, jesus said that the identifying mark of his followers was that they have love among themselves. Not the preaching, which is what the Watchtower seems to think is all important, but love. when did you last hear a talk on that?

What everyone else said about using the organizations own words to show how much they hide their past. You must be very careful, dont do too much at once, a little bit here and there is better.

36

Elders now ORDERED by the Org to fleece the sheep

by The Searcher in

the org is now demanding money from the witnesses, via the latest letter sent to elders regarding the circuit's excess funds.

succeeded in getting elders everywhere to hand over their own congregation's "excess funds" - now their circuit's bank balances are going to be plundered.. the spineless and subservient elders will cooperate without a whimper, because they're afraid of losing their little bit of power which the org has bestowed upon them.

(john 11:48).

LisaRose

Doesn't this simply fit the first-century model? That there be an equalizing out of the wealth? I mean, really, isn't the ploy that wealthy congregation be helping their less fortunate fellow-believers? What's actually wrong with that?

What's wrong with it is that there is nothing voluntary about it. The elders present it to everyone as if it was their own idea, it's not mentioned to them that the society demands it. They could save it in case of a future deficit, use it to purchase supplies for future conventions or save it for future remodeling, but that is not an option, it's "send us the money". In other religions the congregation decides how to spend every penny, they have control, in this religion there is no decision making at the local level, just the illusion of such. Everyone knows if mother asks it's not a request.

37

Noah's Ark

by Darkknight757 in

so i'm reading the book "the atheist book of bible stories" and something just occurred to me.. noahs ark rested on the top of mount ararat.

how the hell did all the land animals, dinosaurs and other monsters get to ground level?

did noah and his family just push them off the mountain and hope for the best?

LisaRose

There are estimated to be between three and thirty million animal species here on planet earth. How many of those do you think Noah actually got onto the ark? How long would it take him to find them all, figure out how to get them to the ark and find the food they would need? How big would that ark have to be? It's ridiculous isn't it? Of course, every believer has the out that God can perform miracles, but if so, why did he need the ark in the first place? Why not just kill off the bad people and skip the silliness with the ark?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, this is just some silly story somebody just made up sitting around the camp fire one day?

26

Which Spiritual belief system or non belief system is right for you?

by Giordano in

we have done this before but we have a fair number of newbie's on this site and some are struggling with the question about other belief systems and non belief.

where are you now in your own mind?

here's a quiz http://www.selectsmart.com/nontheism/ that is pretty accurate, at least in my case as to where i am at this point in my life.

LisaRose

Objectivist? I am not sure what that means.

I agree the questions were poorly worded. I don't think my spiritual beliefs can be distilled into a one word description.

77

Feeling rejected

by Esmeralda001 in

just a little disclaimer: english isn't my first language (i'm from france) thus the poor writing skills.here is the situation: i'm not a jw.

however, i'm in the process of becoming one.

in fact, i'm studying with the jw's, and i'll proceed to become an unbaptized publisher as soon as i finish the first book.to make a long story short i was introduced to the truth when i was 18een.

LisaRose

All religions change and misinterpret the bible's content, even the Jehovah's witnesses, or I should say especially the Jehovah's Witnesses. Have you ever noticed in the Watchtower study they quote a part of a scripture here, a part of a scripture there? It's because they are picking and choosing what parts of a scripture fit their agenda. This is then wound up with a heaping helping of just plain guessing and conjecture. And since this is them guessing, it will change tomorrow. This deep scriptural truths they teach you today will be "old light" tomorrow. They flip flop on so many things, how can you take what they say seriously? Is Jesus your mediator? It used to be he was for everyone, now just the anointed, tomorrow, who knows what they will say.

I used to think they must be the only true religion because they didn't teach a literal hell fire and the trinity. I ultimately realized that did not matter because so much of what they taught was garbage, that getting it right in a few things was meaningless, and I'm not even confident they got it right on that anymore.

As Jesus said, you will know if they are true disciples of they have love among themselves. No doctrine is enough to make up for the complete lack of love and caring in this organization. The early Christians sometimes had conflicting and divergent views, but that did not mean they were not true Christians, nor were they kicked out of the congregation for disagreeing. Not accepting everything taught by the governing body is grounds for Disfellowshiping in this religion. Moving congregations may work for a bit, but you will still end up with the same problems with ever changing doctrine and failed date predictions.

I was a convert in 1969, I got baptized at 14. The Awake magazine said not to get an education, that I would have to face the fact that I would never have a career in this system. Kind of silly, since I am 61, my career come and gone, college would have been nice, too bad I listened to that bad advice. And they are still saying the same thing, young people are still giving up on an education, convinced the end is so close. They taught 1975 was an "important date", the end of 6,000 years of man's existence. Everyone believe Armageddon was going to be in 1975, or very shortly thereafter. Now they pretend that never happened, so funny, I was there.

Do you know there are some Christian churches that have no doctrine? That's right, none. They know that what is important is fellowship, charitable works and love. You would be better off looking into one of them.

56

The watchtowers view on Rape!!! must see

by Khaleesi in

this person did a great job putting this together... i am disgusted with wt policies & them acting both judge & jurywatch "noonespecial - rapists - jw" on .

youtube.

https://youtu.be/lwufz7gyozm.

LisaRose

Life is too short, that is simply horrible, even when I was a fully brainwashed dub I would never have treated anyone the way you were treated. This religion is still in the dark ages when it comes to women's rights that's for sure. You must have been a strong person to get through all that.

But that's what happens when you use a book written by bronze age people as a model for justice in a modern society. In the bible where if you are raped out in the country you are forgiven, but if you were in the city you were put to death, because you could have screamed. What if they gagged you? What if you screamed but no one heard you because you were in a back room? What if you didn't scream because you feared for your life? Nope, put to death, a life sentence because you were a victim. All this from the supposedly just God Jehovah. Sadly some women have had to submit to rape to protect their lives or the lives of their children, but if they are a Jehovah's Witness they will be disfellowshipped. It's hard to believe that these kind of things still happen in our society, but they do.