Posts by Creed

3

This is news to me

by Stealth453 in

the current president of the watch tower society,

don a. adams

, is not a member of the governing body.

They have done this because many times appeals of disfellowshipping go make it to the Governing Body, and decisions that affects millions of people's lives, like what kind of work they can accept, what kind of health care (the blood issue) they can accept, whether to report child molestors, etc, are all decisions made by the Governing Body.

This is another legal move to change their structure to segregate their money and protect the main money making corporations from being held liable for the decision making that the Governing Body does.

Back in 2000, they formed the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" and the "Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses" to facilitate this changeover. I think currently the Governing Body operates under the latter. And information is dissiminated from the Society to the congregations through the "Chrisitan Cong of JW's." Thus they are also segregating the WTBTS from the Governing Body, and the Governing Body from the channel of communication to the congregations. This is all an elaborate scheme to shield themselves with additional layers of liability protection should someone sue the WTBTS for disfellowshipping. They can claim that the local congregation or corporation made the action, and then the plaintiff would have to penetrate four more levels of corporate structure before they can get to the money making corporation at WTBTS.

However, Napa Valley, CA court system and the CA court of appeals seems to be piercing this veil and wading through this red tape in quick fashion.

9

WTBTS & Local Corporate Structure, KH Ownership, Finances, Etc

by Creed in

i had posted this in response to some questions on the napa valley ca court case thread... i am starting a new thread and reposting it here.... there was some previous discussion going on about the wtbts's many corporations, ownership of kh's, articles of incorporation, non-profit status, how kh loans and finances work, etc.

well, good news, i don't want to disclose too much information about myself, but let's just say in my profession, i do a lot of work in this area of expertise.

to answer the question about ownership of kh's though, each congregation is required by the wtbts to set up a non-profit corporation in their particular state with the secretary of state, or corporations division, or businesses division.

Creed

The standard announcement to be read is:

"John Doe is no longer a member of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"

or

"Jane Doe has been disfellowshipped / dissassocciated herself from the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"

And they've changed the baptism vows where you are basically vowing your loyalty to the "earthly organization." Anytime you see organization, you can substitute "corporation." That's how Rutherford thought of it anyway. Congregations were companies and the organization was the corporation.

PS - I highly recommend everyone read Ray Franz' two books if they haven't already. He covers all the bases. Everytime I read another chapter, it relates to a thread on this forum.

9

WTBTS & Local Corporate Structure, KH Ownership, Finances, Etc

by Creed in

i had posted this in response to some questions on the napa valley ca court case thread... i am starting a new thread and reposting it here.... there was some previous discussion going on about the wtbts's many corporations, ownership of kh's, articles of incorporation, non-profit status, how kh loans and finances work, etc.

well, good news, i don't want to disclose too much information about myself, but let's just say in my profession, i do a lot of work in this area of expertise.

to answer the question about ownership of kh's though, each congregation is required by the wtbts to set up a non-profit corporation in their particular state with the secretary of state, or corporations division, or businesses division.

Creed

I had posted this in response to some questions on the Napa Valley CA Court Case thread... I am starting a new thread and reposting it here...

There was some previous discussion going on about the WTBTS's many corporations, ownership of KH's, articles of incorporation, non-profit status, how KH loans and finances work, etc. Well, good news, I don't want to disclose too much information about myself, but let's just say in my profession, I do a lot of work in this area of expertise.

To answer the question about ownership of KH's though, each congregation is required by the WTBTS to set up a non-profit corporation in their particular state with the Secretary of State, or Corporations Division, or Businesses Division. Anyone can do a yahoo or google search for "(state you live in) Secretary of State" and drill down until you find the businesses or corporations division, and do a corporate name search. You'll find that every congregation in the state has sent in articles of incorporation and applied for non profit status. You can view the copies in most states of the original documents and see exactly who is listed as officers of the corporation, or congregation. Separate non profit entities in theory help shield the NY corporations from liability. That is why all monies are basically sent to NY as donations or held in secure deposit with NY. If someone were to fall and break a hip on a slick pavement and sue the local cong, most likely NY would be left out of it, and they would find that the local non-profit's coffers were empty, while NY had millions or billions. However, this doesn't prevent anyone from naming them as defendents in a lawsuit.

In order to be accepted as a non-profit organization, by law you have to designate in your charter that if your corporation ever ceases to exist that you will then donate all assets to another non-profit corporation, whether you specifically name the successor organization is up to you. If not, we could all open up non-profits and run them until we amassed fortunes and then dissolve them and deposit the earnings in our personal bank accounts. So to cover the bases the WTBTS has made it mandatory that all KH's list them as the successor owner in their non-profit charters so as to make sure that the assets wouldn't fall into the wrong hand and would still belong to the WT if anything happened.

As regards the WT's accounting practices regarding loans and insurance, they are definitely shady, but non profits are excluding from much of the routine filings that other corporations have to submit to the IRS etc, which is what normally would lead the IRS to inquire. Ray Franz book "In Search of Christian Freedom" touches on the accounting practices of the WT which could get them in hot water should the IRS ever find out that they are basically operating as mortgage lenders to the congregations but doing so under the premise that the WT is donating the land and KH to the local cong, and that the local congregation is just sending donations to the WT when really its a loan payment. I would assume that there is a lot of funny business and accounting practices going on when it comes to insurance practices in Brooklyn also. It appears that NY is doing this to save itself from paying taxes. What happened to "pay Ceasar's things to Ceasar?" I guess it's do as I say not as I do...

Go to the NY or PA Secretary of State and do a search and you'll find that "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" is now a legal non profit corporation. So now they adapted it so that when they baptize you or DF you, and they say "Christian Cong of JW's" it's really referring to a real corporation!! Just another way that legalism has taken over and they've adapted legally to try to cover themselves from lawsuits from disgruntled DFed by claiming they said they were going to submit to this corporation when they got baptized and formed a verbal covenant or agreement. Pardon my rambling... BLAH!

87

Napa Valley, CA Child Abuse Court Case Victories

by AndersonsInfo in

napa wt child abuse case.

two important court decisions, which came out of napa valley, ca, are now available for us to post on jwd.

these significant rulings overturn objections regularly made by the watchtower in recent lawsuits and may serve as a precedent for future lawsuits.

Creed

Hello all, first of all I'd like to say that I've been observing from the outside and finally decided to sign up for an account. There was some previous discussion going on in this thread about the WT's many corporations, ownership of KH's, articles of incorporation, non-profit status, how KH loans and finances work, etc. Well, good news, I don't want to disclose too much information about myself, but let's just say in my profession, I do a lot of work in this area of expertise and have much to share but I'm not sure where to start a thread at.

To answer the question about ownership of KH's though, each congregation is required by the WTBTS to set up a non-profit corporation in their particular state with the Secretary of State, or Corporations Division, or Businesses Division. Anyone can do a yahoo or google search for "(state you live in) Secretary of State" and drill down until you find the businesses or corporations division, and do a corporate name search. You'll find that every congregation in the state has sent in articles of incorporation and applied for non profit status. You can view the copies in most states of the original documents and see exactly who is listed as officers of the corporation, or congregation. Separate non profit entities in theory help shield the NY corporations from liability. That is why all monies are basically sent to NY as donations or held in secure deposit with NY. If someone were to fall and break a hip on a slick pavement and sue the local cong, most likely NY would be left out of it, and they would find that the local non-profit's coffers were empty, while NY had millions or billions. However, this doesn't prevent anyone from naming them as defendents in a lawsuit.

In order to be accepted as a non-profit organization, by law you have to designate in your charter that if your corporation ever ceases to exist that you will then donate all assets to another non-profit corporation, whether you specifically name the organization or not is up to you. If not, we could all open up non-profits and run them until we amassed fortunes and then dissolve them and deposit the earnings in our personal bank accounts. So to cover the bases the WTBTS has made it mandatory that all KH's list them as the successor owner in their non-profit charters so as to make sure that the assets wouldn't fall into the wrong hand and would still belong to the WT if anything happened.

As regards the WT's accounting practices regarding loans and insurance, they are definitely shady, but non profits are excluding from much of the routine filings that other corporations have to submit to the IRS etc, which would lead to inquiry. Ray Franz book "In Search of Christian Freedom" touches on the accounting practices of the WT which could get them in hot water should the IRS ever find out that they are basically operating as mortgage lenders to the congregations but doing so under the premise that the WT is donating the land and KH to the local cong, and that the local congregation is just sending donations to the WT when really its a loan payment. I would assume that there is a lot of funny business and accounting practices going on when it comes to insurance practices in Brooklyn also. It appears that NY is doing this to save itself from paying taxes. What happened to "pay Ceasar's things to Ceasar?" I guess it's do as I say not as I do...

I have a lot more to share in this area. Please direct me as to where I should start my thread.

1

Dateline & Cano

by Creed in

it would be interesting to see dateline do a followup to their original story as they sometimes do and in that story try to see what kind of progress the wt has made toward solving the problem.

they would have lots of recent examples like that of cano to show that the problem is getting worse and many are hiding within the walls of not just kh's but bethel even and are using their position and their travel paid and provided by the wt and its donations to carry out their exploits on children.

Creed

It would be interesting to see Dateline do a followup to their original story as they sometimes do and in that story try to see what kind of progress the WT has made toward solving the problem. They would have lots of recent examples like that of Cano to show that the problem is getting worse and many are hiding within the walls of not just KH's but Bethel even and are using their position and their travel paid and provided by the WT and its donations to carry out their exploits on children.

17

Why Friday for a DC?

by Inquisitor in

i've been wondering why the gb chose to include a weekday for the district conventions.

is it to test how loyal the members will be if they have to choose between their religion and work?

or are there other reasons?

Creed

About 10-15 years ago, when I was still active and a youngster, we had an out of the ordinary 3-1/2 day convention. Does nobody else remember this? The convention started at 1:30 pm on a Thursday afternoon and went til like 5:30 pm.

From the very beginning of the service meeting announcement in January and the KM part, it was stressed that this was a change from the norm and that we should all make advance plans to attend the extra half day. It was also stressed that this extra half day would prove to be both a blessing and a test of loyalty.

I remember going with another witness family from down the street because one or both of my parents couldn't afford to take the extra day off, they were already missing work Friday and then having to fork out money for gas, hotel room, eating out, and don't forget donations!!! The stands of the coliseum were only half as full as usual. The typical buzz and happiness you're accustomed to didn't exist.

From the very first talk, which I think was the Daily Text, and throughout the entire weekend, seems like every speaker found a way to keep bringing it up and brow beat the audience for the low attendance on Thursday and claiming that this was a test from Jehovah and the WT and many had failed it. You know, the typical "faithful in something small" and so forth. And they made mention to how this was an extra day of spiritual paradise that so many had worked so hard for volunteering their time and services and the WT had spent so much money for the extra half day throughout the third world countries attendence was 130 % but that attendance was low everywhere in the US and industrialized nations, and what disrespect we were showing for Jehovah's arrangement, etc. We heard the typical stories about how the sister in Africa had to walk in 150 degree heat 75 miles up hill both ways through jungles and swamps, cross swollen rivers, fend off nature and the elements, and that all we had to do was get off work an extra day and drive in our air conditioned cars. I was so sick of hearing it by the end of the weekend. How spiritually refreshing and upbuilding right? They also tried another guilt trip - how this could have been a test to see if in future years the WT would go back to 4 day conventions, giving us all an extra day of spiritual encouragement, but that we had miserably failed the test.

Am I the only one that remembers all of that? How could it have been forgotten?