Posts by thirdwitness

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

When it is pointed out that the NGO's with the DPI, according to the UN's own words, do not become members of the UN, auldsoul said: I said they were members of the UN/DPI, not registrants.

Then he tries to make it appear that the WTS is trying to cover up that they were members of the DPI and says: The Society outrightly lies when they mischaracterize the nature of the relationship as one of registrant to registrar.

What did the WTS really say? Did they deny that they ever had a membership to the DPI as Auldsoul contends?

Two quotes from letters sent out by the WTS disproves what Auldsoul is saying:

Quote #1: “Moreover, NGOs are informed by the United Nations that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status."

Reasoning on the matter: If the WT was claiming that they were never associated with the DPI why would they quote information form the UN showing that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations?

Quote # 2: “After learning of the situation, our membership as NGO was withdrawn and the ID card of the writer was returned.”

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Done4good: Secondly, the lack of an explanation to the R&F, (and threatening of df'ing for even ASKING about it), does not put the WT in a good light. Again, any honest person can see this. Why don't you try to take an honest look at yourself for once.

You exaggerate greatly. There is no threatening of df'ing for even ASKING about it. And I doubt that more than 1 out of 10,000 witnesses even know about it. Why would the WT publish some big long explanation about it. Anyone who wishes to inquire gets the explanation and are not threatened with DFing for asking about it.

I doubt that anyone has ever been DFed for only thinking that the WT did wrong in becoming associated with the DPI. Or for that matter for only disagreeing with 1914. Because once a person heads down that road they disagree with many things and want to tell their friends about it as well.

Why don't you try to take an honest look at yourself for once.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

And as respects sharing the 'ideals of the UN' you are overlooking one little thing.

Even the 1996 resolution by the ECOSOC concerning an ECOSOC NGO’s support of the UN makes the following statement about that type of NGO (remember, the Society was not an ECOSOC NGO):

“3. The organization shall undertake to support the work of the United Nations and to promote knowledge of its principles and activities, in accordance with its own aims and purposes and the nature and scope of its competence and activities.”

Note that even an ECOSOC NGO, which is in a consultative relationship with the UN, isn't even obligated to support all the work of the UN. It says its support must be “in accordance with its own aims and purposes”. This means that the particular ECOSOC NGO would not support all the aims of the UN, but only those “aims and purposes” in the “scope of its competence and activities.”

In the case of Jehovah's Witnesses, those ‘aims and purposes’ would be in the field of religious freedom and human rights. That is the “scope of its competence and activities.” There is certainly nothing wrong with supporting that type of work and using whatever avenues are available for assistance. Further, if this qualified definition of “support” applied to the consultative-status ECOSOC NGO's, how much more qualified the definition of “support” must be to the DPI NGOs which enjoy no such status.

Of course, one of the main interests of the UN is human rights. If the UN wants to come to the aid of brothers being persecuted for their religious beliefs, should we not support that? The UN has not yet attacked God's people and proved itself to be an enemy of God. Did not Paul appeal to Rome when he was being persecuted? Yes — did he not use the legal system of a government which later proved to be the foretold “disgusting thing”, to advance true worship?

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Auldsoul and others talk as if the WT's association with the DPI meant they were a member of the UN. Jehovah's Witnesses have certainly never been a part of the United Nations, despite what many misinformed people may claim. Even when the Watchtower Society was a DPI NGO, the UN itself clearly stated to all such organizations that the “association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status.” The very idea that access to the DPI's resources — although many and varied — was some sort of “political partnership” or “political alliance” as many of our critics claim, is not based in reality.

The DPI has never made any associated NGO organization “part of the UN” or gained that organization any kind of special treatment. This may be the case with ECOSOC NGOs, but certainly not with DPI NGO's in the 1990's!

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Tophat said: It is my understanding that the WTS didn't have to join the UN at all to have access to the UN Library...is that so?

The critics often quote statements from the United Nations that the main library, the Dag Hammarskjold Library and it's depository libraries, were accessible to absolutely anyone prior to September 2001. You can read e-mails from the UN itself saying this exact thing.

However, if that is completely true we wonder why the 1994 NGO brochure stated that:

“For NGOs associated with DPI, the United Nations provides: ... use of the Dag Hammarskjold Library.”

If absolutely anyone could use the entire facilities, we wonder why the brochure advertises use of that library as a perk of being a DPI NGO. Of course, if we look carefully we can see that the Watchtower Society did not say they merely wanted access to the “main library”. Bethel said that it was “necessary to present an authorized pass to gain access to those specific areas”. Yes, Bethel never claimed it needed a pass to access the Library itself, but to “specific areas” of that library and specific “library facilities”. A quick investigation reveals that there is far, far, more to the United Nations libraries than simply a main library full of books — and far, far, more than simply the Dag Hammarskjold building.

The library facilities of the United Nations, under the Department of Public Information, includes the following:

books
film and audio libraries
photo libraries
access to meetings
language courses
briefings

seminars
conferences
film screenings
commemorations
concerts
the DPI NGO Resource Center

To access the full range of these facilities you need a DPI NGO pass. Prior to September 2001 you may have been able to simply walk into the Dag Hammarskjold Library as the opposers correctly say — but it is entirely misleading to say all the “library facilities” were available to anyone, because they were clearly not. An NGO pass was required to access everything — otherwise why would the 1994 brochure advertise full access to that library as an NGO privilege? There is only one logical reason: because around 1991 the DPI was making further facilities available at the library, but only to those with an NGO pass.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Zagor: Frankly, to me it is greater thing to share ideals of something than just to "respect the principles" which would mean that WTBS aligned itself with UN with its mind and soul. No further explanation needed. Unless you need English interpreter.

I, thirdwitness, share these ideals. Just what are those ideals of the UN?

“to maintain international peace and security; to suppress acts of aggression that threaten world peace; to encourage friendly relations among nations; to protect the fundamental freedoms of all peoples without discrimination based on race, sex, language, or religion; and to achieve international cooperation in solving economic, social, and cultural problems."

Does the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses share those same ideals? They most certainly do — and have done so for years before the UN formed! It is understandable why NGOs should share these same ideals, for the UN would not want to assist or help any organization which promotes contrary ideas.

Do you share these ideals? Or are you for war, discrimination, genocide, curtailing of freedom and liberties, religious intolerance etc etc?

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Outlaw: 3Rd Witness,exactly how stupid are you?..Under no circumstances should the WBTS have joined the United Nations NGO..There is no excuse ..None..Your defense of this shows everyone your dishonesty and lack of integrity..Is there anything about you that is not corrupt?...OUTLAW I say: There's nothing wrong with what the WTS did. I can make statements too just like you. If you are going to say anything you should back it up with some proof. Statements are easy to make. The proof is in the pudding.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Now that I have shown that JWs are right about 607, 1914, parousia, seven times, etc I will now address Auldsoul's and others questions about NGO/WT.

(1) Did the non-governmental organization known legally as Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. join the United Nations Department of Public Information (UN/DPI) as an Associate?

Yes, that is said in the essay. If you would have read it you would not be asking. Read the 2nd paragraph in this link: http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/knowyourngos.html It is clear as day.

(2.1) If not, why did they request to disassociate in 2001 from an organization to which they were not associated?

This question is invalid. But if you are asking why did they request disassociation it is because the criteria had changed over the years and when it was realized they ask to be removed.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/thechangingworldofngos.html

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/pleasesignnowhere.html

(2.2) If so, is the United Nations Department of Public Information an organization under judgment by Jehovah God?

All govenments are to be destroyed (by the one who was given a crown and began riding on the white horse, also called THE WORD, who cast Satan out thus came to pass the power and kingdom and authority of Christ and did become King in 1914) including the UN. And yet, we are to be in subjection to them and show repect to them and their organizational programs and we are to use them for our benefit. Just like Paul and the apostles did.

Often apostates try to compare the UN and governments and their programs to false relgious organizations and point out how we would be DFed if we joined the YMCA or the Vatican to look at a painting but there is a big difference.

The YMCA is a false religious organization — the UN is not. While the Bible tells us to be in subjection to worldly governments by obeying the law, paying our taxes, registering in certain programs, and using governments to “legally establish” the preaching work, the Bible puts us under no such obligations to any of the false religions in this world. Revelation 18:4 tells us to “get out from among” false religion, while Romans 13:1 says to “be in subjection” to the government. Using government programs and facilities for our benefit cannot be compared to using similar things from false religions.

(3) Are the other members of the UN/DPI approved or disapproved by God? (see provided examples)

To be recognized as a legal religion, in some countries, the WTS has registered as an NGO. Other religions have also registered. So they are all recognized NGO's of that government. Because other religions have been associated as NGOs of the government does that mean the WTS will be judged by Jehovah just like the rest of them?

So really what you are asking is basically: are all other religious organizations approved or disapproved by God, right? I would say disapproved because of their false teachings about God, such as the trinity and hellfire.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Steve ask about 'sharing the ideals of the UN' as a requirement for association with the DPI. Here is the answer:

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/principlesupport.html

It still appears that you haven't read the whole thing. I know it may be long but if you want to know the truth and stop listening to the misleading ramblings of apostates you should read it.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

I think thats pretty much a wrap on the 607/1914/7times/parousia info. I believe all onlookers can see what the result of this discussion has been. If you want to discuss NGO we should go here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/117658/1.ashx