thirdwitness

Joined

• started 7 topics
• posted 524 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by thirdwitness

• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Guess what? Everyone is associated with some country as a citizen. You must follow the laws and guidelines. Sometimes you join a government program to obtain certain benefits. You may have to become a corporation of the government in which you live to gain certain benefits provided only to corporations. Some countries require religions to send in an application to the government to be recognized as a legal religion. When becoming a citizen of a country a person must swear to support the constitution of the country. Is this wrong? The WTS has never said that it was wrong so you cannot judge them based on that. What if the WTS has to agree to support the constitution of the country in order to be recognized as a legal religion? Would that be wrong to do? The UN is no different from the governments. It is an authority placed in its relative position by God because He has allowed the governments to form the UN and to wield a certain amount of authority. It is not a religious organization.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Wow, talk about hair splitting. The UN is made up of governments that we are to be in subjection to. That being the case are we to be in subjection to the UN and its officials who are made up and come from other governments? Of course. The UN's authority comes from the other governments. If the UN troops are sent into your country will you be in subjection to them or feel that its ok to disobey whatever rules they make? The UN is no different from all other singular governments except that it is comprised of many sovereign states. Should the UN, in accordance with the governments that comprise it, adopt certain laws in our country where we live we should obey those laws or regulations.

  The UN System
  The basic structure of the United Nations is outlined in an organizational chart. What the structure does not show is that decision-making within the UN system is not as easy as in many other organizations. The UN is not an independent, homogeneous organization; it is made up of sovereign states, so actions by the UN depend on the will of Member States, to accept, fund or carry them out. Especially in matters of peace-keeping and international politics, it requires a complex, often slow, process of consensus-building that must take into account national sovereignty as well as global needs.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  This was a year ago but Mr. Hoeffel did not respond to my questions. I received several responses telling me to contact different peoples or offices for more information. I received no new information from any of the sources, which were several, that I contacted.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  And for those who are trying to say that the UN is not a government so we do not have to be in subjection to them:

  You are wrong. The Un is made up of many govenments. They are one of the superior authorities that we are to be in subjection to as long as they do not tell us to disobey God. For example, in Lebanon where UN troops are being sent in to keep the peace do you believe that it is not necessary to be in subjection to this authority. That there is no need to obey whatever rules they put in place such as curfews or off limit sites?

  The Watchtower of October 1st, 1995 provides a clear description of how we should view the United Nations:

  “In Bible prophecy, human governments are often symbolized by wild beasts. (Daniel 7:6, 12, 23; 8:20-22) Hence, for many decades the Watchtower magazine has identified the wild beasts of Revelation chapters 13 and 17 with today’s worldly governments. This includes the United Nations, which is depicted in Revelation chapter 17 as a scarlet-colored beast with seven heads and ten horns.

  “However, this Scriptural position does not condone any form of disrespect toward governments or their officials. The Bible clearly states: “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves.”—Romans 13:1, 2.

  “Accordingly, Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are maintaining strict political neutrality, do not interfere with human governments. They never foment revolution or participate in acts of civil disobedience. Rather, they recognize that some form of government is necessary to maintain law and order in human society.—Romans 13:1-7; Titus 3:1.

  “Jehovah’s Witnesses view the United Nations organization as they do other governmental bodies of the world. They acknowledge that the United Nations continues to exist by God’s permission. In harmony with the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses render due respect to all governments and obey them as long as such obedience does not require that they sin against God.—Acts 5:29.”
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Let me use an example that is not hypothetical.

  A representative of the WTS tried to get in some certain part of the UN library facilities one day. He was told he couldn't get in unless he had an NGO pass. So they filled out the application and submitted the required information. They were then issued an NGO pass to access all the library facilities. They never signed any document saying they would agree to support the UN or even share the ideals of the UN charter. They did supply articles which they had written about the UN which was the only requirement stipulated on the application.

  Every so often they filled out a form which told who would receive the cards or passes to get in the extensive library facilities and what fields they were intererested in. They also periodically supplied articles they had written about the UN. This of course was nothing new as the WT has always published articles about what the UN is doing and how they will not solve the problems of mankind but rather it is only God's kingdom that can do that.

  Meanwhile, the UN released a brochure and press release saying among other things that NGOs agreed to support the UN. Then in 2001/2002 the UN began a new review process that required NGOs to agree to do things that the WTS had never agreed to do. When the WTS found out about the new criteria that had to be agreed to and that the UN was saying that NGOs must support the UN they basically said, 'Wait a minute. We did not agree to support the UN or its charter nor do we agree to do that now. Please remove us from your list of NGOs.'

  It is quite simple. Apostates however want to villanize the WTS and exaggerate what really happened because it makes them feel better for leaving Jehovah and his people. It is just an excuse for doing what a person wants to do and thereby not having to answer to anyone or live a life in accord with the Bible and its principles. No more door to door work. No more meetings. Free to engage in whatever conduct a person desires.

  Sorry, but those are the facts. But I think most of you already know that, don't you?

  Auldsoul will you please briefly ask the questions that you feel I haven't answered and I will do so.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Yes, I ask him and the other websites that I refer to are the misleading apostate sites that give false information. For example, some try to say that the WT went thru the review process and provide the accreditation form created after 2001. A form which the WTS never filled out but apostates want to make you think that they did fill it out. Go look for yourself and you will see unless they have changed it because they were caught in a lie or a mistake.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  did you decide to attack him publically based on your undestanding of the "evidence" without the courtesy of contacting him?

  I did indeed contact him and many others with the DPI trying to gather information but I never received any different information than what other sites have shown.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Suppose you filled out an application to be a member of blockbuster so you could have access to their movies, games, etc and in the application it said you must submit articles that you have written about blockbuster to continue you membership. Suppose you did not sign anything but just gave them your information and in return they gave you a pass to rent items. And so you rent movies etc from them for a while and you send them articles that you have written about them.

  But then someone says, "Hey look here. You agreed to rent porno movies and support the porno industry when you became a member of blockbuster. Look here at this press release from blockbuster. It says that all members agree to support the ideals of the porno industry. And look here, this is a brochure (printed after you became a member) that blockbuster gave to all its members telling them that they must rent porno movies and support and share the ideals of the porno industry. And look here, here is a letter from the head of blockbuster saying that all members agree to support and rent porno movies"

  Did you really agree to these terms just because they say that all members agree to that? If you didn't sign saying you agreed to those terms then you did not agree to those terms. And when it is pointed out to you what blockbuster is saying you could simply say, "NO, I did not and I do not agree to those terms. Here is your card back."

  And that voids all the arguments you could possibly make against the WTS.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  The fact remains that the wts joined an organisation which it has always comdemned,

  No not a fact at all. A misleading statement often made by apostates but an untrue one. The WTS did not 'join' the UN. In fact, it is clearly stated by the DPI: "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status."

  But I do like the fact that you admit that the WTS has always condemed the UN. At least you here admit that the WTS in the Awake magazines did not secretly promote the UN as the hope for mankind.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  As for the application having a place for email address or web site, please take note that the application is the one posted by apostates claiming that it is a 1991/92 application. If it is a later application than the apostates claim, then you have once again been misled by deceitful apostates. And if it is a later application then more than likely the earlier 1991 application did not even require as much information as the later one. We can say this because the evidence shows that the DPI was changing toward NGOs and their policies toward them and their requirements were becoming more and more strict than in the previous years. Take for example the rigorous review process not instituted until 2001/2002 after the WTS had withdrawn.