thirdwitness

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Posts by thirdwitness

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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  I will give another example of association with the UN that would not be wrong. The UN court system. If the WTS needed to fill out an application to become associated with that branch of the UN in order to have a hearing to plead for relief for brothers in persecuted lands would this be wrong?
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  And by the way if you want to split hairs then you contradict yourself. You say that the DPI is part of the UN. Then you say the WTS joined the DPI which is part of the UN but then you admit that being an associate of the UN/DPI does not mean you became part of the UN. But if the DPI is part of the UN and if the WTS joined the DPI then they became part of the UN and yet the UN says that NGOs do not become part of the UN. So is the UN lying when it says that NGOs are not incorporated into the UN.

  So the point is that being an NGO with the UN/DPI does not mean that the WTS became incorporated into the UN//DPI, they were merely an associate of the DPI in accord with the WTS own aims and purposes.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  I believe it is you people who are confused. We are to be politically neutral. This does not mean we should not be associated with every single governmental endeavors or programs. For example, the postal system in the US is ran by the government. Can we build a post office or work for the post office. Yes, because even though it is governmental its objectives are not contrary to our Christian beliefs. In some countries the schools are governmentally maintained. Can we not be a teacher? Can we still send our children to school? Yes, because the objective is to educate. This is not contrary to Bible principles.

  And the UN is no different. If the UN took over the disaster relief efforts for a certain disaster it would not compromise our Bible principles to become associated with those efforts as I mentioned above. Why? Because their objective is to bring relief to the victims. Since those objective are not contrary to Bible beliefs then there would be nothing wrong with such an association.

  When the WT became associated with the DPI, despite what the UN may later say, the WTS did not agree to 'support' the UN. The application proves this. And so does the accreditation forms. Also even at that, even if they had agreed to support the UN, the UN clearly states that NGOs support the UN in accord with its own aims and purposes. If the NGOs aims and purposes involve human rights and religious freedom then that would be the only field that such support would be given in. Association with the DPI did not cause the WTS to lose their political neutrality. How could it when they were not politically recommending one government over another? The WTS agrees with the UN that people should be able to choose their form of worship and that humans should not be persecuted by the governments of this world for the choices made in that area. This is what the WTS supports.

  Whats funny about the whole thing is that if the WTS had an opportunity to be associated with the UN human rights efforts and doing so would bring relief to brothers in some lands being persecuted you would be condemning them for not taking advantage of the opportunity. I can just here it now, "I can't believe the governing body makes no effort to help those poor sufffering brothers when it is within their power to help them. They sit up their in their comfortable ivory tower with everything a person needs, fulfilling their every desire, and do nothing to help the brothers being persecuted. All they would have to do is become an NGO associated with the UN human rights department. What would be wrong with that. The human rights department does not wage war and is not political. What unloving old farts. I am glad I left this foolish organization.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  Is it OK to formally associate with Vatican in order to use its extensive library resources???

  The Vatican is religious. We are to get out of Babylon the Great. We are not told to get out of the governments. In fact, we are told to be in subjection to them. Religion can not be compared to government.
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  I am glad someone brought up this november 22, 1998 Awake. This gives us further opportunity to show how the apostates try to mislead us about what the Awake magazines intentions were.

  Consider the last few paragraphs of the article. Do they promote the UN as a viable world government?

  “Just as the Bible shows that the Creator is the source of the faculties that underlie human rights, it also informs us that he is the source of a world government that ensures them. This heavenly government is invisible but real. In fact, millions of people, perhaps unwittingly, pray for this world government when saying in what is commonly called the Lord’s Prayer: “Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.” (Matthew 6:10) The God-appointed Head of that Kingdom government is the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ.—Isaiah 9:6.

  This world government will succeed in creating a truly global and lasting human rights culture by, among other things, eliminating war forever. The Bible prophesies: “He [the Creator] is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth. The bow he breaks apart and does cut the spear in pieces; the wagons he burns in the fire.”—Psalm 46:9

  How soon will this happen on a global scale? The Bible study program provided by Jehovah’s Witnesses includes a satisfying answer to this question. We encourage you to get acquainted with this program. If you care about human rights, you will not be disappointed.”

  The article leaves the reader to consider how the “Prince of Peace” Jesus Christ — not the UN — will create a “truly global and lasting human rights culture”. This is an appropriate end, for in the previous paragraphs the article shows how the UN has failed to accomplish it's Human Rights goals. First of all, this supposed “propaganda” for the UN says:

  “For millions of people around the world, human rights violations are impossible to ignore. Their daily plight is still marred by discrimination, poverty, starvation, persecution, rape, child abuse, slavery, and violent death. For these victims the promising conditions spelled out in the towering stack of human rights treaties are a thousand miles away from the world they know. In fact, for most of mankind, even the basic rights listed in the 30 articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights remain an unfulfilled promise.”

  We wonder what kind of “propaganda” in a “UN publication” calls the UN's Human Rights declaration “an unfulfilled promise” for “most of mankind”. After this, it goes on to list several areas where the UN has failed and Human Rights continue to be violated world-wide. These areas are listed under subheadings entitled, 'Equality for All?', 'Children Without Childhoods', 'Choosing and Changing One's Religion', 'Sore Back but Empty Purse', 'Medical Care for All'. Each subheading headlines how the UN has failed to accomplish their goals in each of these areas. Of course, conspiracy theorists do not tell you about that part of the article.

  While the article definitely informs us about the UN, it certainly does not support or promote it as a viable world government. The only thing it seems to be promoting is Jehovah's Witnesses' free Bible study program. Oh, but yes, it certainly does point to a world government as the solution to Human Rights violations — but that government is God's Kingdom, not the United Nations in New York. As the Watchtower Society have quoted many times in relation to the efforts of human governments:

  “It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” —Jeremiah 10:23
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  This letter from the WTS written to one brother really hits the nail squarely on the head. It said:

  What makes us always a bit sad is the fact that some of our brothers seem to have a stronger confidence in the media and reports launched by our opposers than to statements made by the Organization by means of which they have learned the truth. Of course we expect to be reproached, slandered and that any tiny occasion is used to put us in a bad light. We expect that and we are even happy about it because we endure this for Jehovah and his son (Matthew 5:11; 1 Peter 4:14). But we are hurt, when some of our brothers uncritically accept those presentations, getting set against Jehovah's organization or even letting themselves become a mouthpiece. Surely, no one of us wants to belong to those mentioned in Matthew 24:49 and 3 John 10. Of course, Satan would be happy if he urged us that far.

  Our opposers always spread the idea that we do some secret operations while keeping the publishers ignorant. These accusations are likely as old as Christianity itself - with the difference that today modern media are used. That does not mean that we condemn these media in general which can be seen by the fact that the Headquarters and some branches run their own Websites. But warnings are not without reason, because through the Internet you can easily get in touch with the thoughts of apostates, which the Bible clearly warns against (2 John 8-11).

  Especially in intellectual circles of society it is viewed as "chique" to doubt everything on principle and to insinuate bad motives everywhere. How bad would it be if that destructive-critical spirit was transferred to God's people. Paul said, love "believes all things" (1 Corinthians 13:7). That does not mean credulity but a positive confidence in Jehovah, his word and his organization. Of course, Jehovah's organization is not perfect. It was not in the first century and it was not at the time of the judges and kings of Israel.

  Nevertheless, those putting their confidence in the leading of the men appointed by God were blessed.

  One example for this is Absalom’s rebellion. He reproached God's anointed king David when he told those who came with a legal case to the king: “See, your matters are good and straight; but there is no one from the king giving you a hearing.” (2 Samuel 15:3).

  Maybe he even gave examples of persons who seemed to have been treated unjustly. But Jehovah did not bless those believing Absalom but those sticking to David who was appointed by God and who had obviously Jehovah's blessings. Surely, we want to follow Ittai's example who firmly stood by Jehovah's anointed (2 Samuel 15:21).

  We hope that these statements are helpful to you. In the confidence that Jehovah is giving us all the power to endure we are sending Christian greetings,
  
  Your brothers

  I fully concur with this letter. Since there is no real proof of deceitfulness or lying on behalf of the Bethel, and the evidence supports their version of events, should we not, if we call ourselves Christians, give our brothers the benefit of the doubt and not impute or imply bad motives? If you wish to judge them in a condemnatory way that is your right, but be aware that you are insisting your brothers are lying — no matter what explanation they offer and even though, when examining the facts, it becomes clear that they are not lying after all.

  If you have read the claims of apostates and believed what they said, I would like to say this to you: At one time, I too was persuaded by the apostates to some extent. However, when I examined the evidence for myself I realized that it was apostates — in fact — who were in the wrong, not the brothers.

  If you have been disfellowshipped or have disassociated yourself over the NGO matter, I would recommend that you consider the evidence honestly and humbly accept that your views on the matter may be wrong, and return to the Christian congregation. Be courageous and offer an apology for accusing the brothers of spiritual adultery and of lying. Tell them that you now realize there is not enough evidence to boldly (and unlovingly) call our brothers liars. There is no dishonor in admitting you were wrong. Write a letter stating these things and that you want to come back home to Jehovah's worldwide congregation. You will be glad that you did!
• 
  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  Is it ok to be formally associated with the UN?

  Is it that you didn't see my answer or you didn't understand it. It depends on what is involved in the association with the UN. For example, lets say that a disaster struck a certain country and some branch of the UN disaster relief program was handling all relief efforts. Due to looting or other circumstances no one was to be allowed in the country without a NGO pass as an associate of this branch of the UN. Therefore, for the WTS to get medicine, food, water etc to the brothers and others they would have to fill out a formal application and be accepted as an associate to that branch and receive an NGO pass to get by the check points. Perhaps one of the requirements on the application (although this did not appear on the DPI application by the way) might be that the NGO share the ideals of the UN. Would it be wrong to apply for such associate status? While some of you will no doubt say yes because you have only one agenda, you must at least allow for the possibility that it might not be wrong and that Jehovah just might not judge the WTS in a condemnatory way. So rather than make a judgement based on what you think is right or not and condemn the WTS would it not be better to let Jehovah be the judge and remain loyal to Jehovah and His people.

  Personally, I would not see anything wrong it. And if I was wrong then I believe it would be best to let Jehovah handle it as He sees fit. Who am I to assume and make great claims that the WTS is lying when the proof is lacking and when the paper trail of evidence shows otherwise.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  The answer to the question in big red letters:

  That is such a broad question. It depends on what that association involves. Just like association with any government depends on what is involved.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  Lets take a look at the evolution of the apostates claims about the WT as an NGO with the DPI.

  1. The UN resolution 1296 says that NGO's must support the UN. The WTS agreed to do this.

  The facts show that there are two types of NGOs. The WTS was not an NGO with the ECOSOC which has consultative status and must support the UN under the resolution 1296. The WTS as an NGO with the DPI was not under that resolution. Poof! The apostates argument went up in smoke.

  2. Yes but another resolution 1297 shows that the DPI should sign NGOs up in the spirit of that resolution so see they were under that resolution.

  The facts show that this resolution was instructions as to what the DPI officer should do. It was not a resolution for NGOs and their requirements. Poof! The apostates argument went up in smoke.

  3. The WTS is lying when they said they did not sign anything that went against their beliefs.

  The facts showed that the application did not even require a signature nor did it say anything about supporting the UN. The accreditation form likewise said nothing about supporting the UN. Poof! The apostates argument went up in smoke.

  4. The WTS had to go thru a review process every year. (Then they show the accreditation form produced by the DPI after 2001.

  The facts showed that the accreditation form before 2001 was not a rigorous review process but was merely a form to show who the representatives would be and what fields they were interested in. Poof! The apostates argument went up in smoke.

  5. The WTS is lying about needing an NGO pass to access the library. The library was accessable to anyone before 2001. They did not need to be an NGO.

  The facts showed that one of the perks for becoming an NGO advertised by the DPI was access to all the library facilities which included more than just the main library. Poof! The apostates argument went up in smoke.

  6. The brochure says that the criteria for becoming an associated NGO is that the NGO must support the UN therefore the WTS must have knew that.

  The facts show that the brochure that apostates quote from is a brochure that was released sometime after 1991. Poof! The apostates argument went up in smoke.

  7. Well, they still agreed to support the UN.

  The facts show that the WTS never signed any document agreeing to support the UN. They only agreed to write articles about the UN's programs which they had always done and still continue to do. Poof! The apostates argument went up in smoke.

  8. The WTS did so promote the UN by disseminating information about the UN. You can deny it if you like but look here where the UN lists an article from the Awake.

  It has never been claimed that the WTS did not agree to write articles about the UN. They did it before 1991 and they continue to do it after 2001. The Awake magazine does not promote the UN as the solution for man's problems but rather it promotes the God's kingdom as the solution. Poof! The apostates argument went up in smoke.

  And so not wanting to admit the misleading and deceitful tactics or mistakes used by apostates, many continue to look for new arguments to prove the WTS has engaged in spiritual adultery. How about doing the honest thing and admitting that you have been misled by falsehoods and false reasonings.
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  597

  Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

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  thirdwitness

  
  As respects the press release from 1992 by the UN perhaps this needs repeating:

  A representative of the WTS tried to get in some certain part of the UN library facilities one day. He was told he couldn't get in unless he had an NGO pass. So they filled out the application and submitted the required information. They were then issued an NGO pass to access all the library facilities. They never signed any document saying they would agree to support the UN or even share the ideals of the UN charter. They did supply articles which they had written about the UN which was the only requirement stipulated on the application.

  Every so often they filled out a form which told who would receive the cards or passes to get in the extensive library facilities and what fields they were intererested in. They also periodically supplied articles they had written about the UN. This of course was nothing new as the WT has always published articles about what the UN is doing and how they will not solve the problems of mankind but rather it is only God's kingdom that can do that.

  Meanwhile, the UN released a brochure and press release saying among other things that NGOs agreed to support the UN. Then in 2001/2002 the UN began a new review process that required NGOs to agree to do things that the WTS had never agreed to do. When the WTS found out about the new criteria that had to be agreed to and that the UN was saying that NGOs must support the UN they basically said, 'Wait a minute. We did not agree to support the UN or its charter nor do we agree to do that now. Please remove us from your list of NGOs.'

  It is quite simple.