Posts by thirdwitness

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Zico: I can’t see why it should really matter that much if someone in Malawi had a card saying they supported the party?

I can’t see why it should really matter that much if someone said heil Hitler and supported the Nazi party?

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

done4good: Articles in the Awake magazine were clearly written to appease the UN,

Then you must be also claiming that article written prior to become an NGO with DPI were also written to appease the Un and the WTS had at least a 17 year plot to do so. Also they continue to write articles to appease the UN despite the fact that they are no longer an NGO with DPI. This is why your claim holds no water. That and the facts that this chart shows:

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/charts/mankindshope.html

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Tell me thirdwitness. How does Babylon the Great ride the back of the wildbeast if not as UN associated NGO's? How does religion become a part of the UN if not through NGO association?

There are many ways. By coming an NGO with the ECOSOC thus be in consultative status with the UN. By siding with the UN in their resolutions and military actions. Well, Basically the answer is By exalting the UN as the hope for man to solve its problems. I think you probably know this already.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Gary1914, You have just made a typical response by someone that when faced with the facts does not want to acknowledge them. You write a bunch of words and rhetoric as if it were fact but offer no proof of what you say. It is like saying: the moon is made of cheese because you can buy cheese at the store so where else could it come from. Are you saying that the WTS had a 17 year plot to become an NGO with the DPI? That is how far back one of the articles in the Awake magazine about the UN that I quoted from is dated.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Let me give you examples of articles before 1991:

Pre-1991 articles

What about Watchtower and Awake! articles written before and after the Society was a DPI NGO? Has there been any articles which, if had been published during the 1991 to 2001 status, would now be declared as “UN propaganda” by Internet conspiracy theorists? Certainly!

One article which would have definitely been considered “propaganda” printed as “part of the deal” with the UN, is in the February 22nd 1979 Awake!. When examining this article are we to assume that that the Watchtower Society had a 12-year plot to become a DPI NGO with the UN and thus began writing “UN propaganda”?

Here are a few quotes from that article. While reading it, just imagine what kind of accusations a conspiracy theorist would make.

“Commendable Goals

The goals of the United Nations organization are commendable. “The purposes of the United Nations are,” so reads its charter, “to maintain international peace and security.”

Article 55 of the charter says: “With a view to the creation of conditions of stability and well-being which are necessary for peaceful and friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, the United Nations shall promote: a) higher standards of living, full employment, and conditions of economic and social progress and development; b) solutions of international economic, social, health, and related problems; and international cultural and educational cooperation; and c) universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion.”

Fine goals, but to what extent have they been reached? To what extent can they be reached? An article in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung in 1965 called attention to certain facts that still apply today 14 years later: “A balance of twenty years of UN history and a long list of conciliation and mediation measures shows that the United Nations have been successful in cases where the ‘super powers’ have not been directly involved.”

The article called attention to the fine work done by organs of the United Nations in other fields, such as by the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) and by a host of others.

There are U.N. agencies, for example, dealing with the peaceful uses of outer space, of atomic energy and of the seabed. Questions of the environment, industrial development and economic development also come up for consideration. There is a United Nations Fund for Drug Abuse Control. Much has been done in the way of disaster relief. One of the most remarkable achievements was caring for the needs of millions of Bangladeshi refugees after the war with Pakistan.

A Committee on Crime Prevention and Control has also done fine work. The first major intergovernmental conference ever devoted solely to women was sponsored by this organization in Mexico City in 1975.”

Here is another example, a December 8th 1974 Awake! article entitled What the Poor Nations Are Saying:

“In the spring of 1974, the “underdeveloped” countries sponsored a special session of the United Nations General Assembly. This three-week session was devoted to their problems, especially the use of their raw materials by the richer countries.”

“United Nations Secretary-General Kurt Waldheim answers:

“The single most devastating indictment of our current world civilization is the continued existence of stark, pervasive poverty among two-thirds of the world population.”

“It permeates every phase of life in developing countries: in the malnutrition of children, in the outbreaks of diseases, in widespread unemployment, in low literacy rates, in overcrowded cities.”

Ah, now it is becoming clearer. The Watchtower Society had a 17-year plot to disseminate information for the UN in order to become a DPI NGO! That is almost comical. Needless to say there are others, and of course all the articles close with, as the accusers will say, the ‘token’ references to God’s Kingdom and that it will accomplish what man-made governments have failed to accomplish.

Post-2001 articles

Do the Watchtower Society publications show a change since withdrawing membership as a DPI NGO? Would the articles written continue to be viewed as ‘UN propaganda’ if the Society was still a DPI NGO today? Lets examine some of these articles in the Awake! magazine since 2001.

The March 22nd 2005 Awake! cover-article Mountains Vital for Life On Earth is one recent example. Here is a quote from it:

“The United Nations Environmental Programme sponsored the International Year of Mountains 2002. To emphasize mankind’s dependence on the mountains, organizers coined the phrase “We Are All Mountain People.” They aimed to increase awareness of the problems facing the world’s mountains and seek solutions to protect them. This concern is a valid one...”

Other references are made to what the UN has done and, as always, the article closes with what God’s Kingdom will accomplish. Can you not just here the accusations, “Most people did not even know that 2002 was the International Year of mountains. But here again the Watchtower has seen to it that its readership is made aware of even obscure International Years.” Is this not precisely what would be said?

Another example is January 8th 2005 Awake! article Can Planet Earth Be Saved? Here is a quote from it:

“True, world leaders have made commendable efforts to curb pollution, deforestation, and other environmental problems. Starting with the UN Conference on Human Environment in 1972, and followed by other conferences at regular intervals, up to 163 nations have met to endorse action plans.”

Imagine if this had been written in the 1990’s, we would no doubt hear the same tired old accusations of conspiracy and deception from accusers, “It's more one-world propaganda for the UN! They are praising the 1972 conference and the so-called commendable efforts of the UN!”

Also consider the February 22nd 2003 Awake! article Malnutrition “The Silent Emergency”. As you can just imagine from the title, there are many references made to the UN. Here is one that would definitely be given as “proof” if written during the time the Society had DPI NGO status:

“...in 1996 the World Food Summit of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) set the goal of reducing the number of the world’s undernourished by half—some 400 million people—by the year 2015. Commendably, some progress has been made.”

Listen! Can you here the accusatory statements about the blatant way the Watchtower promotes the goals of the UN and informs us of the UN’s proposed solutions as part of their global agenda?

Let's take one final example, although we could go on and on. Consider the February 22nd 2005 Awake! article The Role of Mothers as Educators. Here the Writing Department has the gall to put a picture of the UN Secretary-General, Kofi Annan, and quote what he said about women in the center of page 5! Can't you just hear the accusations? “What purpose could this possibly serve but to promote the UN and their agenda?”

Yet the fact is that all of these articles were written after 2001 when the Watchtower Society withdrew its DPI NGO status. Perhaps someone needs to tell them that they can stop their “blatant propagandizing for the UN” since they no longer need to disseminate such information as part of the “back room deal”. That is certainly a ridiculous statement, but it well demonstrates how absurd the previous accusations are about the Watchtower Society's deliberately publishing “UN propaganda” and the Awake! allegedly becoming a “UN publication” to fulfill the UN's requirements.

Each article featuring the UN has always closed with how God’s Kingdom, not the UN, will solve all the problems of mankind. Besides, articles of these exact same sentiments were published both before and after the DPI NGO years anyway.

In conclusion, have we as Jehovah's Witnesses disseminated information about the UN? Of course we have. We did this long before we were a DPI NGO — even before the UN was formed — and we continue to do so to this day. Did we give our publications to the UN as proof of our concurrence with DPI requirements? Yes, and why not? Such a provision was a sensible precaution of behalf of the UN's DPI to ensure their facilities were not being misused by undesirable organizations who “contribute to the propagation of nazi ideology and racial and/or religious discrimination”. These are the words of the UN's own resolution on the matter, not ours.

Furthermore, all the articles point to God's Kingdom! Does writing honest articles about the UN, showing how God's Kingdom will succeed where the UN has failed, make us a political partner with the UN? Does it mean we are guilty of printing “propaganda” to promote their “global agenda”? We believe the reasonable answer is firm 'no' and that the conspiracy theorists are reading into the evidence what they wish to see.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

seig'swife,

When the WTS applied for association as an NGO they at that time had to give I believe 6 references to articles about the UN. Of course, they had such references because they have since the inception of the UN wrote articles about them and their efforts. The articles existed not because they were trying to get a library card for the UN facilities. They had written articles long before they applied for a card.

After that, if they were to continue to have their passes they would periodically have to fill out a form showing who the representatives would be to receive the passes and give references to articles written about the UN. The articles of course existed. Not because they were an NGO with the DPI and were wanting to continue in that capacity but because they have always written articles about the UN and its efforts showing how the UN will fail where God's kingdom will succeed.

There is nothing sinister about it. There is no sharing the magazine with Satan. The WT continued to do what they had always done: show that only God's kingdom will solve man's problems, not the UN or any other government despite their efforts, no matter how noble those efforts might be.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Done4good: You're way off base here 3W. Not only does the WTS consider the UN "the disgusting thing that stands in an elevated place", a recent WT article pointed out that the "elevated" position it stands in will be in the form of REPLACEMENT of false religion at the beginning of the GT. If the WT goes as far as to consdier the UN a "replacement" for false religion, then that implies IT IS a "religion" of sorts, as far as the WT is concerned. Please don't try to use the excuse that somehow the UN is not currently in that status, so it dosen't matter. This is indeed how the WT views the UN. It is not THE POST OFFICE, FEMA, part of the SCHOOL SYSTEM, the JUDICIAL SYSTEM, WELFARE or SECTION 8. I said it before. You are intellectually dishonest.

Is this the question you are referring to? I didn't see a question in it but anyway your reasoning is wrong. The UN is not a replacement for false religion. It will destroy false religion. The UN is not a religious organization.

The Watchtower of October 1st, 1995 provides a clear description of how we should view the United Nations:

“In Bible prophecy, human governments are often symbolized by wild beasts. (Daniel 7:6, 12, 23; 8:20-22) Hence, for many decades the Watchtower magazine has identified the wild beasts of Revelation chapters 13 and 17 with today’s worldly governments. This includes the United Nations, which is depicted in Revelation chapter 17 as a scarlet-colored beast with seven heads and ten horns.

“However, this Scriptural position does not condone any form of disrespect toward governments or their officials. The Bible clearly states: “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves.”—Romans 13:1, 2.

“Accordingly, Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are maintaining strict political neutrality, do not interfere with human governments. They never foment revolution or participate in acts of civil disobedience. Rather, they recognize that some form of government is necessary to maintain law and order in human society.—Romans 13:1-7; Titus 3:1.

“Jehovah’s Witnesses view the United Nations organization as they do other governmental bodies of the world. They acknowledge that the United Nations continues to exist by God’s permission. In harmony with the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses render due respect to all governments and obey them as long as such obedience does not require that they sin against God.—Acts 5:29.”

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

However, my question is, if you can praise the U.N. in Watchtower literature, why not the U.S., British, Russian, Chinese or the 191 governments or nations that are members? Where do we find favorable articles on even a few of them?

First of all the WT has not praised the UN as the solution for man's problems. It has told the facts about what the UN is doing and trying to do. But never has the WT publications praised the UN as the solution for mankinds troubles. They have always pointed to God's kingdom. Do a search on the WT CD and I am sure you will find where they have told about the effort of other governments to solve man's problems. But since the Awake and WT are international magazines of course they will mostly talk about the UN's efforts since the UN is made up of virtually all governments worldwide.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

Why were Witnesses in Malawi not allowed party cards?

Because they were political party cards not library cards.

so what you are saying is that avarage JW can also estublish himself/herself as an NGO with UN and he/she;would not be disfellowshipped for it???

NO, he/she would not be DFed if he were an NGO with the DPI.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

thirdwitness

JAYHAWK, What I have shown is the first and last pages of the application for NGOs with the ECOSOC of which the WTS was not one and never filled out such an application. It can be found here:
http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/ngo/ Click on forms and documents and then

click on application in English

If the DPI had such an application/agreement like the ECOSOC then apostates would have already found it and brought it forward in hopes of discrediting JWs. But they haven't because it doesn't exist. Paul Hoeffel would have also likely referred to such an application/agreement therefore proving definitively that the WTS agreed to support the charter of the UN if one existed but he didn't.

The scans of the '1991' application I provided earlier in a post a page or two back.