Posts by thirdwitness

13

The most critical question about the JW and pedophilia?

by Check_Your_Premises in

when looking at the jw pedophilia problem it is important to make the distinction between "theocratic" and secular authorities.

as we all know, the jw consider only their authority to be legitimate and secular authorities as a necessary evil to be "rendered unto".. here is my summary of the pedophilia problem in the organization:.

1. a person accused of pedophilia by a child cannot be found guilty within the org without another witness.. .

thirdwitness

http://thetruthaboutthetruthaboutthetruth.blogspot.com/2006/07/does-policy-of-watchtower-create-safe.html

If you go to the above link you will find that what is presented on this thread is very much in error.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

thirdwitness

Jeffro said: In verse 29, Jesus is baptized.

I think if you read the verses you will find that this is not the case at all. Jesus was not baptized in verse 29. John is merely telling others about what happened when Jesus was baptized. He was baptized sometime ealier than this. Otherwise John could not be telling what happened when he was baptized.

Of course this has nothing to do with the 40 year desolation of Egypt except maybe to prove that the Bible is not reliable and therefore the Bible contradicting 587 theory is correct.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

thirdwitness

thirdwitless, it is evident to almost all readers that you've completely failed to support your case. Although you tell yourself that you've dealt with all questions, you most certainly have not. You've simply ignored 90% of the questions posed to you -- pointed questions that you know would destroy your case if you answered them. Destroy your case, not in the sense that it has not already been thoroughly trashed, but in your own mind. Questions such as:

By all means make a list of all the questions I have ignored concerning the 40 year desolation of Egypt. After all, your challenge was to bring up one point. I did. Then you want to bring up the question below which has nothing to do with the topic:

Why have you committed apostasty against "the faithful slave" by promoting a private interpretation at odds with its published doctrine on the meaning of Tyre's 70 years?

Do you know how tired we are of this argument by you and your friends? These type of questions are posed everytime you have no answer on the subject at hand. Why? To confuse the issue of course. Hoping to befuddle any who are reading, hoping that they will not see that 587 has been without question uprooted and thrown in the fire.

Why do you and the Watchtower Society not interpret Exodus literally?

"In six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them."--Exodus 20:11
"In six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth."--Exodus 31:17

Everyone knows that the Bible is full of both literal and symbolic words. You keep asking this point as if it has anything to do with the 40 year desolation of Egypt. It doesn't and you know it. But keep trying to muddy the water hoping no one will notice that you have failed to answer the problem about the 40 year desolation of Egypt. I believe your answer was something like this: Ezekiel was a false prophet.

The reason you refuse to answer is that you know very well that giving the obvious answers would refute your claim that the Bible must be interpreted literally whenever you or the Watchtower Society say it must.

I have not refused to answer any question on the 40 year desolation. If there is some biblical reason why the 40 year desolation of Egypt prophecy should be symbolic by all means present it.

JW lurkers, please take note of thirdwitless' lack of response.

JW lurkers take note that no one has been able to provide a plausible logical or reasonable answer for the problem that 587 defenders have with the 40 year desolation of Egypt. Both the Bible and a Babylonian inscription support it. Do not let them confound the issue with their attempts at sidetracking. And JW lurkers take note that one of the biggest promoters that JWs are wrong about 607 has declared that Ezekiel was a false prophet.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

thirdwitness

Jeffro: It was foretold that Nebuchadnezzar would desolate Egypt for 40 years, however the reason for allowing that conquest should not be ignored. That is found at Ezekiel 29:35. The bible indicates that Jehovah would allow Nebuchadnezzar to conquer Egypt for helping to bring the foretold judgement against Jerusalem.

I understand that you mean Ezek 29:19-20 but even that reasoning is in error. If you will read the preceeding verse, verse 18, you will see that he is to be rewarded Egypt not for his service against Jerusalem but for his service against Tyre who made fun of Jerusalem. And since the foretold desolation of Egypt likely happened two years after the prophecy was made here is what you are saying:

Jehovah watched Neb desolate Jerusalem and saw how he treated the exiles for 17 years afterwards. Then he uttered the final prophecy against Egypt. Then during the 18th or 19th year of exile Jehovah suddenly realized what Neb had done to his people and changed his mind about giving Egypt to Neb. And on what do you base this illogical explanation? Pure conjecture. Make up any argument to disprove JWs regardless of how silly the argument.

Again, how much are you selling that Brooklyn Bridge for?

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

thirdwitness

As a side point, according to Matthew 4:1-2 and Mark 1:12-13, Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness immediately following his Baptism, however the narrative in John 1:29 - 2:1 states that Jesus was at the wedding in Cana 3 days after his baptism.

Is it your contention that the 40 days in the wilderness was symbolic of less than 3 days? That would not seem to be symbolic of many. Anyway, John 1:29-2:1 does not state that Jesus was at the wedding in CANA 3 days after baptism.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

thirdwitness

Leo said: I guess you didn't look up Ezekiel 29:35, huh?

UH, No I didn't. But I'll look it up just as soon as you look up Hezekiah 3:5.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

thirdwitness

Outlaw, yes I like your argument to. It also fits in well with the rest of them. You willl no doubt like your argument being included in the summary.

7. 40 years is not literal. 40 is symbolic of many years?

If that is the case then the Bible should provide examples of 40 year or day periods that were prophecied that turned out to be symbolic and not literally 40 years or days. And then there should be some viable reason, some proof that the symbolism should be applied in the case of Egypt's desolation. What do we find?

Some defenders of 587 have tried to use the 40 years the Israelites wandered in the wilderness, the raining of 40 days and 40 nights at the time of the flood, Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness, and so forth as proof that 40 can be symbolic of many. But we must point out that all these events covered 40 years or 40 days literally, not figuratively. By using these examples they have done nothing more than disprove their own argument that the 40 years of desolation is figurative. There is no Bible precedent for assigning the 40 year desolation of Egypt as figurative. It is literally without merit.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

thirdwitness

Jeffro, I like your argument a couple of pages back about Jehovah changing his mind on giving Neb the spoils of Egypt because Neb went to far against Judah in bringing destruction to the max. It fits in nicely with the other arguments the 587 defenders have made. I will add it to the summary. How bout this:

6. Jehovah called off the desolation of Egypt because Nebuchadnezzar went too far in his harsh treatment of Judah thus God decided not to give Neb the spoils of Egypt.

When we examine the time period that the prophesy of the desolation of Egypt was given we will see this cannot possibly be the case. The final part of Ezekiel's prophecy was given about 17 years after Neb desolated Jerusalem, the 27th year of Ezekiel's exile. Therefore Jehovah had already seen and and for a fact knew exactly the treatment that Neb had measured out to Judah when he made the prophesy. Do we imagine that Jehovah had temporary amnesia and thus prophecied Neb would desolate Egypt and get much booty? Then Jehovah's memory returned so that he said, 'Nevermind. I just remembered what Neb did to my people in presumptuosuly going beyond what I wanted him to do. Scratch that last prophesy about Egypt's desolation.' The implications are ridiculous.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

thirdwitness

No what makes the whole thread funny is there is a bunch of 587 pretenders who avoid the 40 year desolation of Egypt like a plague because they have no serious answer. ONly foolish stabs at an answer. Really don't all you mighty scholars with so many credentials feel foolish that you must resort to outlandish explanations to overcome the 40 year desolation. It is absolutely amazing. JW lurkers must be laughing there rear ends off at how you cannot overcome such a simple Bible prophecy except by resorting to ridiculousness. All you can do is change the subject to Tyre or why do I disagree with the WT etc etc etc.

To tell you the truth, I expected better. I am thoroughly dissappointed in your antics. Name calling does not prove anything except that you cannot disprove the points made. Thus the name calling. You have really built up my faith in JWs having the truth. Thanks. Is there anybody else out there that will admit that the 587 pretenders have totally dropped the ball on the 40 year desolation of Egypt because whether you admit it or not, deep down you know they have failed.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

thirdwitness

For those who do not have time to read this whole thread allow me to give a brief summary for you. First a link was given to a site that Biblically proves 607 and disproves 587.

3w: http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/default.html

Alanf: Here's a challenge for you, thirdwitness: You pick one topic from the site you linked to, and argue the case on this forum. You'll get a run for your money.
But I don't think you, or any other JW-defender, is up to the challenge.

And so 3w put forth the infomation found here: http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/egypt.html
This information showed that the 40 year desolation of Egypt by Neb as prophecied by Jehovah in Ezekiel 29-32 clearly disproves 587 beyond a doubt. Now it became pertinent for 587 defenders to disprove that the 40 year desolation of Egypt never happened as prophecied. They certainly could not admit that JWs are right. And so the discussion proceeded. While the discussion also covered other areas, this summation will only cover the discussion that concerns the 40 year desolation of Egypt. Lets look at the 587 defender's proofs.

AlanF told us their were 'legions' of problems with the reasoning presented. Wading thru all the long writings and name calling such as moron, retardo, idiot, thirdwitless, etc, what do we find their arguments against the 40 year desolation to be.

1. Ezekiel said Tyre would never be rebuilt but it was, therefore since the Tyre prophecy is figurative then the Egypt prophecy must be figurative.

2. Jehovah told Jonah to tell Nineveh that it would be overthrown but when Ninevah repented he did not carry it out so likewise Egypt.

3. There is no secular evidence that gives any indication that Egypt was desolated during this time period.

4. There is no way that Babylon could have displaced millions of Egytians.

5. Ezekiel was a false prophet and neither the Tyre prophecy or the Egypt prophecy came true.

Yes, this was the very best that could be mustered up to disprove the 40 year desolation of Egypt by Neb. What did an examination of each argument reveal?

1. Ezekiel said Tyre would never be rebuilt but it was, therefore since the Tyre prophecy is figurative then the Egypt prophecy must be figurative.

There are many things in the Bible that are figurative. It is faulty reasoning to say of totally unrelated subjects without any connection, 'Since this is figurative then that must also be figurative.' Even if we assume that the Tyre prophecy is figurative, it must be shown that this is somehow connected to the Egypt prophecy and that it must also be figurative. No connection was made except that both prophecies were made by Ezekiel. Do we conclude that all prophecies in the Bible are figurative because the Tyre prophecy is figurative(assuming that it is)? Do we assume that all prophecies of Ezekiel are figurative because the Tyre prophecy is figurative? The reasoning is absurd.

2. Jehovah told Jonah to tell Nineveh that it would be overthrown but when Ninevah repented he did not carry it out so likewise Egypt.

The Bible goes into detail in the story and Jonah and explains exactly how the king of Ninevah and his subjects repented, thus Jehovah spared them. Do we have such details of Egypt's repentance anywhere in the Bible? Or we told how Pharoah and his crowd repented in sackcloth and ashes when they heard of their coming destruction? Surely such a huge act of repentance by a notoriously pagan nation would have been recorded in the Bible as an example for all? How about in the secular evidence? Do we have available the ancient fragments that decribe to us how Pharoah and his crowd left his pagan gods and turned to the worship of Jehovah. It is difficult to even answer this point without laughing? What a joke this reasoning is?

3. There is no secular evidence that gives any indication that Egypt was desolated during this time period.

There is very little secular evidence about Egypt during this time. It is not surprising that Egypt would fail to record such a defeat. After all, they did not record the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt either. Does that mean the exodus never happened?

But why didn't the Babylonians record this defeat upon Egypt? Surely they would have bragged about it. Well, there most definitely is proof that the attack by Nebuchadnezzar against Egypt happened. The evidence shows that just two years after the final part of the prophecy against Egypt an attack was made by Neb against Egypt. The Babylonian chronicle known as BM 33041 says: "In the thirty-seventh year of Nebuchadnezzar, king of the country of Babylon, he went to Mitzraim (Egypt) to make war. Amasis, king of Egypt, collected [his army], and marched and spread abroad..." Fortunately for 587 proponents the rest of the chronicle is badly damaged and the extent of the defeat of Egypt cannot be read. But I am quite sure that if we could read the entire inscription we would have the further proof. However, the part that can be deciphered is enough to prove that a campaign by Neb against Egypt did take place right on time just after Ezekiel prophecied it. What a coincidence, huh?

4. There is no way that Babylon could have displaced millions of Egytians.

This is surely what Babylon was known to do. They had experience at displacing entire nations. Look at the nation of Judah. How many millions were killed and displaced by Babylon? Yes, there if proof positive that Babylon could and did exile entire nations from their homeland. On top of this, the all powerful Jehovah prophecied it and could make it so. What a straw grasping argument that goes against Jehovah's power and the actual nature of Nebuchadnezzar to exile people from their land.

5. Ezekiel was a false prophet and neither the Tyre prophecy nor the Egypt prophecy came true.

This argument is made by the ones that realize that if Ezekiel's prophecy is accurate then 587 is wrong. So rather than being dishonest and pretending that the Bible supports 587 they come right out and tell you that the Bible is wrong on this. Many did this on this thread. One of which is one of the leaders here among you against 607, AlanF. He declared: Ezekiel demonstrably falsely prophesied about the ultimate rebuilding of Tyre, and all of his other prophecies are called into question....Because you failed to acknowledge the fact that Ezekiel prophesied falsely, the rest of your statements are mere attempts to misrepresent the issue and misdirect your readers....The simple fact is that Ezekiel prophesied falsely, and therefore his words cannot be taken as gospel.

I rest my case.