thirdwitness

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Posts by thirdwitness

• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

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  thirdwitness

  I see that the arguments against the 7 times being 2520 years has been reduced to cartoons. This is apropos.
• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  The June, 1914/ Oct 1914 is really not that difficult to explain. It was at the end of June that the archduke was assassinated. That is when history declares that WW I began. But so what? Just because someone was assassinated then you think that the Devil must've already been cast down by then. By Oct, 1914 WW I was just getting underway. Turkey did not even side with Germany until Oct, 1914. Sides were still being drawn. Really this is a poor attempt to discredit JWs.
• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Where... does... it... say... to... use... the... day... for... a... year... rule?

  I will ask you the same thing about the 70 weeks. You must use logic and reason. You must use the example of the 70 weeks. I have answered this already in detail. Are you one who wants it on a silver platter?

  Wasn't this just a prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar?

  No, this I clearly showed to over and over again. Must I repeat Ezek 17, 19, 21 , Isa 6 etc and even what is said in Daniel 4. There connection is there if you want to look at it without preconceived ideas against JWs.

  How did this become a prophecy about the Mesiah?

  All of Daniel's prophecies are about the Messiah. Do you think that it just so happens that all oh except the tree dream is about the Messiah? The theme of Daniel 4 as well as the whole book of Daniel tells us just what the whole account is about. The bigger picture. The kingdom of God. The chosen ruler. The lowliest one of mankind.
• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Auldsoul: But your narrative asserts that Jehovah's rulership is NOT eternal, that it skips a gap of 2,520 years, and that is directly contrary to the BIble.

  Are you suggesting that Jehovah stands for both himself and Neb in the dream? Either way, your second interpretation would require that Jehovah's rulership is NOT everlasting toward the earth, if it were true.

  You are wrong on both assertions. Jehovah's rulership of course never ends. But it was for 7 times that Jehovah would not have a king exercising his rulership on the earth in sitting on God's throne as His representative. I have never said that Neb stood for Jehovah. The tree pictures Neb and in the greater fulfillment pictures Jehovah's rulership toward the earth as expressed thru his chosen representatives. The tree does not picture Jehovah himself or his everlasting rulership as sovereign of the universe. Nor does Neb picture Jehovah.
• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Auldsoul I think I pretty much debunked your 70 weeks is really translated 70 weeks of years and a day for a year is not needed but here is a little more debunking.

  Genesis 29:27 "Complete the week of this one, and we will give you the other also for the service which you shall serve with me for another (Shabuwa`)seven years (Shaneh)." Shaneh is the word for 'years'.

  If shabuwa means seven years then why was it necessary for the writer to also use the word 'shaneh' which is translated years? It should have just read 'for another shabuwa' and thats it, if shabuwa means 1 week of years or 7 years. This is further proof that the 70 shabuwa or weeks of Daniel 9 must apply the day for a year if it is to be interpreted properly.
• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  
  
  
  
  

  Notice in one of my last few posts I discuss the 70 weeks. This is part of the proof that a day for a year should be applied. Also Here is what I had previously written about this:

  Should We Apply the Day for a Year Rule?
  
  
  If a day for a year is not applied then that means that the 7 times lasted from 607 to 600. Did a ruler of God's Kingdom come forth then? Logical reasoning will lead a person to believe that the day for a year rule must apply otherwise the prophecy is meaningless. We have as an example the seventy weeks prophecy of Daniel chapter 9. The day for a year rule must apply in Daniel chapter 9 or the prophecy is meaningless and is of no value.

  As we have already shown Daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years. Therefore it must mean more than 7 years. Otherwise he would have said 7 years not 7 times. Do you think that Jehovah was trying to trick us by using the terminology of 7 times and then explaining the length of 3.5 times in Revelation only to merely mean that the 7 times that pass over are 7 years and that is all? AT the same time he supplied the rule ' a day for a year ' when Ezekiel laid on his side for so many days (which by the way pointed to the destruction of Jerusalem in 607). He also supplied the prophecy of the 70 weeks which also needs the rule of 'a day for a year' for it to have value. The 70 weeks from 455 brings us to 453.5. Nothing happened. So surely it must be a day for a year.

  With that said, is there any other reason to apply the day for a year rule to the dream? For a moment lets reason why God wanted us to know exactly how long 3 1/2 times are. In one place he calls it 42 months, in another place he calls it 1260 days. If it only meant 42 regular months then why be so specific about it. What difference does a few days here or there make? Why not just 3½ years or 42 lunar or solar months? The only time a few days does make a big difference is when you are dealing with a prophecy that has a day for a year rule applied. In this case every day makes a big difference. When you combine this with the fact that every prophecy of Daniel either concludes with Jesus arriving in God's Kingdom or with the arrival of the Messiah who is the King of God's Kingdom, then you have a pretty strong reason to apply the day for a year rule. End of quote.

  Let me explain the last paragraph a little bit further. Revelation tells us about 3.5 times. And it tells us that this is 42 months. Now 42 months could be construed as being 1260 days because using 30 day lunar months 42 X 30 = 1260. But if we were calculating 42 months on a solar calendar then we would have more than 1260 days. 3.5 X 365 = 1277.5. Now if we use a day for a year on that figure we would have 1277.5 years. 7 times would then equal 2555 years. But amazingly we did not have to do such figuring. Because Revelation actually comes right out and tells us that the 3.5 times, the 42 months, is equivalent to 1260 days. So there it is. There is no question. 3.5 times does not equal 1277.5 days. It equals 1260 days. Therefore 7 times = 2520 days. It is right there in the Bible for those who want to see it. Applying a day for a year, just like it was intended on the 70 weeks prophecy, there it is 2520 years = the 7 times of Daniel. It is important that Revelation was precise in saying that 3.5 times was 1260 days since 1 day was to equal 1 year in calculating the 7 times thus a few days would have made a big difference in calculating when the rightful ruler would arrive.

  I realize that this is not good enough for some. They do not want to dig deep into the Bible. They wanted Daniel to come right out and say, "7 times = 2520 years and God would have no king exercising rulership toward the earth from 607 to 1914." They do not want to have to look at other scriptures such as Revelation, Ezekiel 17, 19, 21, Isaiah 6 and make the obvious connections that were put in their by Jehovah so that we could make the connections. That is just tooooo complicated and difficult. They want it laid in their lap on a silver platter. Well as the Bible says that is not the way it works. If you want the knowledge of God you have to dig thru his word to find it. But it is there.
• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  And while I'm thinking of it heres the answer to a question that someone posed about no one knowing the day or hour.

  No one knows the day or hour of Armageddon. That doesn't mean we can't know when Jesus began to rule as the king of God's Kingdom.
• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Auldsoul: "Iddan" does not have to mean more than 7 years. It can mean less than 7 years with equal facility. It can mean "measure of time", or "season" and if you were aware of this possibility prior to posting this false statement then your statement was sophistic. Were you aware that "iddan" can be less than a year, thirdwitness? If so, then you already knew your statement that "it must mean more than 7 years" was false, since you already knew of another possibility.

  The question that you should be asking is why didn't Daniel just spell out how long Neb was to be crazy. Why didn't he say 7 years or 3.5 years or 1260 days or whatever the time period. Jehovah knew the time and could have pinpointed it. The reason is obvious to those who can reason and are willing to dig into God's word and connect the dots. Daniel had to convey the length of time for Neb but also the length of time until God would place the lowliest one, the rightful king on His throne. So he used the word iddan which could convey both time periods.

  The same question again: Why didn't John in Revelation just say 3.5 years or 1260 days or 42 months. He had no reason to throw 3.5 times in there. Oh but yes he did. How else could we know what the 7 times were equal to unless the Bible told us. And fortunately it did.

  Now if you want to argue that the Bible does not tell us how long 7 times is then be my guest. But you have got to know that it clearly does tell us. For those who want to connect the obvious dots, it is there for you to do. For those who don't, then keep on listening to one who doesn't even believe the Bible is God's word. I'm talking about AlanF. Perhaps one day you can be like him and surpass God's word.

  For those who want it on a silver platter. Sorry. Thats not how Jehovah works. The Bible was written in such a way to discern to intentions of the heart. For those not truely wanting to know. They give up and quit. For those wanting to know the truth, they dig into God's word. That is why Jesus spoke in illustrations. He could have plainly told everything so that everyone today could understand but it was his intention to cull out those not really interested, those who did not care to dig deep and learn more.

  Proverbs 2:1 1 My son, if you will receive my sayings and treasure up my own commandments with yourself, 2 so as to pay attention to wisdom with your ear, that you may incline your heart to discernment; 3 if, moreover, you call out for understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, 4 if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it, 5 in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God.
• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  Auldsoul said: Are you aware that the word translated "weeks" in Daniel 9 literally means "weeks of years"?

  I strongly disagree with you here and so does a ton of Bible translations.

  New American Standard Bible "Seventy weeks have been decreed

  American standard version: Seventy weeks are decreed
  
  New KJ: "Seventy weeks are determined
  
  Authorized KJ: Seventy weeks are determined
  
  Holman Christian Standard: Seventy weeks are decreed
  
  New Revised Standard: Seventy weeks are decreed
  
  Strong's KJV: Seventy weeks are determined
  
  Young's Literal translation: Seventy weeks are determined
  
  New INternational readers: "The Lord has appointed 70 'weeks'
  
  Webster's Bible: Seventy weeks are determined
  
  Hebrew's name version: Seventy weeks are decreed
  
  Complete Jewish Bible: "Seventy weeks have been decreed
  
  New World Translation: “There are seventy weeks that have been determined

  There are more.

  The word used is Shabuwa` (Transliterated Word). It is translated as weeks throughout the Bible. Even in the book of Daniel at 10:2,3: In those days I, Daniel, had been mourning for three entire (shabuwa) weeks. I did not eat any tasty food, nor did meat or wine enter my mouth, nor did I use any ointment at all, until the entire three (shabuwa) weeks were completed.

  Would you argue that Daniel did not eat for 3 weeks of years or 21 years?

  Some Bible translations have rendered Daniel 9:24 as 'weeks of years' because they are doing more than translating, they are interpreting what was meant and they are correct in their interpretation. But I guarantee you that if Jesus would have appeared in a literal 70 weeks or just over one year not one translation would have translated it as 70 'weeks of years'. Logic and reasonableness dictates that Daniel did not just mean 70 weeks or a little over one year. These 70 weeks (by applying a day for a year) pointed to the Messiah. Likewise, using logic and reasonableness, the 7 times was not 2520 days (607 to 600) but rather 2520 years. This again pointed to the Messiah but this time as coming in his kingly power.

  All Daniels prophecy are about God's Kingdom. Daniel 4 is no exception.
• 
  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  thirdwitness

  These questions remain which are basically 3 questions:

  Are you aware that the word translated "weeks" in Daniel 9 literally means "weeks of years"?

  "Iddan" does not have to mean more than 7 years. It can mean less than 7 years with equal facility. It can mean "measure of time", or "season" and if you were aware of this possibility prior to posting this false statement then your statement was sophistic. Were you aware that "iddan" can be less than a year, thirdwitness? If so, then you already knew your statement that "it must mean more than 7 years" was false, since you already knew of another possibility.

  The rest are asking about how and why make the day for a year application.

  I will get to these later.