Posts by thirdwitness

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

Auldsoul said: Paul didn't say he was still waiting, he said that was awaiting until...

I am still waiting for a legitimate answer....no scratch that .... I am awaiting until I get a legitimate answer.

But thanks for the attempt.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

Ok, I will help you out.

When did Jesus receive 'all authority' as recorded in Matt 28:18?

If you say while on earth then the question is how then did he receive kingship and power in Daniel 7:13,14 after going to heaven and coming before Jehovah?

If you say while on earth then How did he go secure kingly power in heaven according to Luke 19 when he already had 'all authority before going to heaven?

If you answer after he went to heaven then how is it that Jesus said he had 'all authority' while still on earth? Your whole argument that 'all authority means all authority' has just gone up in smoke. You cannot use that argument to disprove JWs because obviously Jesus did not receive his kingship until after going to heaven. Therefore, the question is when did he receive kingship of God's Messianic Kingdom? Was it in 33CE immediately after going to heaven or was it 1914.

When did God make his enemies a stool for his feet? Was it when he sat down at the right hand of God in 33CE after going to heaven?

Paul gives the answer: Heb 10:12 But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.

Now, opposers of JWs, you have a problem. Hebrews was written in 61CE almost 30 years after Jesus went to heaven. Jesus sat down at the right hand of God after going to heaven in 33CE but he still had to wait until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet. When did that happen? It was after 61CE for sure for Paul said he was still waiting.

Here is another problem you have. Revelation was written in 96CE. Some, like Auldsoul, say a little before that. But at any rate it was written long after Jesus went to heaven in 33CE. Revelation was given to John "to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place." So it was about future events that would take place long after 33CE.

Now go to Revelation 11:15-17:

15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

16 And the twenty-four elders who were seated before God upon their thrones fell upon their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king.

Huh oh. Another big problem for opposers of JWs. How can this be? How is it that Jehovah begans ruling as king sometime after 33CE, even sometime after 61CE, even sometime after 96CE? What about that argument that Jehovah has always been king and could never begin to rule as king at some later point in time? What about that argument that Jesus was given 'all authority' therefore he could not have begun to rule at a later date after 33CE? Poof! It just went up in smoke.

The fact is that all of Revelation takes place in the Lord's day for John said, " 10 By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a strong voice like that of a trumpet, 11 saying: “What you see write..."

So now it becomes fact that Jehovah began to rule thru Christ as His King in the Lord's day sometime after his going to heaven in 33CE. The question then becomes when is the Lord's day? And this question the Bible answers in Matthew 24 when Jesus answered, "What will be the sign of your parousia and the conclusion of the system of things?" Additionally the tree dream pinpoints the time when Jehovah would once again began ruling as King as respects his sovereignty towards the earth. All evidence points to 1914.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

Frank has posted scriptures proving that Christ sat down at the right hand of God upon his ascension to heaven after his resurrection.

Very good. Now when were his enemies placed as a stool for his feet?

And Did Jesus receive 'all authority' as recorded in Matt 28:18 before his ascension to heaven while still on earth or after his ascension to heaven?

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

When did Jesus sit at God's right hand and when were his enemies made a stool for his feet?

When did Jesus get all authority? Before his ascension to heaven or after his ascension to heaven?

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

auldsoul:

Daniel 7:13-14

“I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin."

Please, direct my attention to the portion that could not have been fulfilled after the resurrection of Jesus and LONG prior to 1914. Your unsubstantiated assertions and interpretations about 1914 CREATE the necessity of explaining why Jesus lied in Matthew 28:18. You cannot then hold us to account for an explanation of a contradiction between your own doctrine and what the Bible directly states. The onus is on YOU to explain why he lied, since according to your explanation that is exactly what he did.

You are saying that Daniel 7 happened after Jesus' ressurection. Did Daniel 7:13,14 happen in heaven or on earth? If it happened in heaven (which is obvious) after Jesus' ressurection and ascension then according to you Jesus must've lied when he said before his ascension to heaven, 'all authority has been given me...' You thus do the very same thing that you accuse JWs of doing, you contradict yourself.

Was Jesus given 'all authority' before his ascension to heaven or after?

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

While you are contemplating the question as to how Jesus received 'all authority' while still on earth and then received more authority and power and kingship after his acsension to heaven I will continue.

There is no doubt that Jesus sat down at the right hand of God after his ressurection. He was in this way exalted over all peoples and authority. Who could argue that. But lets start with Psalms 110:

The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

2 The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:]
“Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

Christ was to sit at God's right hand until his enemies were placed as a stool for his feet. The sitting at God's right hand happened at his ressurection but his enemies were not placed as a stool for his feet at that time. Not until he would become King upon Mt Zion (heavenly Jerusalem) and rule in the midst of his enemies. This did not happen immediately after his ressurection but was yet future.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

Before I answer AlanF's questions which have really already been answered (I will do it again in different words for the hard of hearing), let me ask this because it was simply ignored.

AlanF said: conclusive scriptures that I presented in my post # 4170 (page 39 of this thread) that prove that Jesus received all authority shortly after his resurrection.

Before Jesus went to heaven after he was resurrected he said 'All authority has been given me'. How then did he receive more authority after he ascended to heaven as recorded at Daniel 7:13,14, Rev 12? Just where did he go to secure this kingly authority as recorded in Luke 19 if he already had 'all authority' shortly after his ressurection before his ascension to heaven?

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

Death of the Pixies:
All" is idiomatic in Greek, it can easily easily be understood in a certain context and often has exclusions. There is no reason to think that this "all" authority must include the authority of the Davidic Kingship. One does not have to search hard to see "all" pertain to just "some" in the GNT/LXX. Dr. Strong is a putz, but here commenting on pas/panta, he makes good sense:... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go after Christ? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does the whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ... "

Here Death of the Pixies makes an excellent point that will of course largely be ignored.

To add to this here are some questions to consider that shows the reasoning that "all means all" therefore Jesus could not gain any more authority or special kingship.

Where was Jesus when he made the statement in Matt 28:18 "All authority has been given..."? Heaven or Earth?

Where was Jesus when he received kingship in Daniel 7:13,14? Heaven or earth?

Where was Jesus when he cast Satan down to the earth in Rev 12 when it said 'Now has come to pass the kingdom and authority of Christ"? Heaven or Earth?

Where did Jesus go as recorded in Luke 19 to secure kingly power? Heaven or earth?

The answer to these questions are obvious. Jesus had not even been ressurected to heaven yet when he said 'All authority..." It was only After his acsension to heaven that Daniel 7, Rev 12, and Luke 19 could take place.

You have heard this argument so many times before: If Jesus became King in 1914 then why hasn't he brought an end to all governments? Why does things continue as they are?

But this argument is soundly defeated because whether you believe it was 1914 or not when Jesus received kingly power it was some time after he went to heaven. Lets say it happened on the day he went to heaven. Then why didn't he bring an end to the wickedness? Why did things continue on just as they were before? But of course all the evidence points to 1914 whether you will admit it or not.

Once again the faulty reasoning of opposers of JWs is shown.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

Steve: are an apostate and should be disfellowshipped. You are causing divisions among the flock. The faithfully and discreet slave have been appointed over our SPIRITUAL things as well.

Well yes, the spiritual earthly belongings of course. Not heavenly belongings.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

thirdwitness

For the record I firmly believe the FDS has been appointed over all the master's earthly belongings. My point is that even if some believe that the FDS has only been appointed to provide the food and preach the good news and that the appointment over all the belongings happens after Armageddon this is still no reason to leave the truth or abandoned Christ's brothers.