Theft from the libraries of C of C is VERY common. All for Jehovah.
Randy
Dogpatch
JoinedPosts by Dogpatch
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COC in public libraries
by diamondiiz ini haven't researched this but do library have copies of this book?
did you ever look for coc or any other book in a local library when you were a believer or when you began to have doubts?
how hard is it to find this book in a public library?.
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Call for Student Posters: Manipulation and Victimization
by Dogpatch incall for student posters: manipulation and victimization.
annual conference of the international cultic studies association,.
montreal, canada, july 5-7, 2012. .
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Dogpatch
Call for Student Posters: Manipulation and Victimization
Annual Conference of the International Cultic Studies Association,
Montreal, Canada, July 5-7, 2012
Calling all students!
The International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA) is holding its
2012 Annual International Conference jointly with Info-Cult/Info-Secte
and in collaboration with the Université de Montréal, The
International Centre for Comparative Criminology (ICCC) of the
Université de Montréal, and l’Association québécoise Plaidoyer-
Victimes.
Please submit your research, including research in progress, and be
part of a growing and exciting international community of researchers
in the field of cultic studies, religious studies and sectarianism,
undue influence, and new religious movements.
Your poster can focus on one or more of the many areas in this diverse
and emerging field including:
• social psychology or sociology of influence
• study of harm or treatment of victims
• history, anthropology and culture of cults or sects
• demographic studies on the prevalence of new religious or other
movements
• policy and political science of cultic groups
• individual subjectivity, agency, and creativity in cultural groups
• boundaries between the individual and society in group and other
contexts.
You can submit your poster proposal - an abstract of a maximum of 300
words – in English or French. Accepted posters can also be considered
for presentation in both languages. We also welcome group research
project submissions.
Deadline for abstracts: December 31, 2011
A prize will be awarded for the best poster presented at the
conference by the President of the International Cultic Studies
Association. All poster presenters will have conference fees waived.
Send your poster abstract to the Conference Committee:
E-mail: [email protected]
ICSA, P.O. Box 2265, Bonita Springs, FL 34133, USA
Phone: 1-239-514-3081 ◊ Fax: 1-305-393-8193
Web: www.icsahome.comPDF Version on the Web (URL:
https://docs.google.com/a/icsa.name/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7gQLq25IOjMMzA2NDhiNWEtZGM2YS00ODZhLWIzNDgtZjcwNDg2OTUzZDky&hl=en_US) -
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COC in public libraries
by diamondiiz ini haven't researched this but do library have copies of this book?
did you ever look for coc or any other book in a local library when you were a believer or when you began to have doubts?
how hard is it to find this book in a public library?.
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Dogpatch
Books donated to libraries like Crisis have to be kept "in stock" at least yearly. Some JW is always happy to unpromote true kingdom interests. :-))
But many others are help.
I don't get a discount on Ray's books (it's now in Amazon's hands) otherwise I would offer an plan like he once had.
And that book is so important it should be FREE in PDF format in all languages, since it's not going to hurt sales that much. People still read books. :-))
JMHO
Randy
for an alyernate perspective you can send people to:
Randy
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Pose THIS QUESTION and watch JW"S REALIZE they have been DUPED!!
by foolsparadise ini told a current longtime jw friend who hasn't been to a meeting in months now :) this statement:.
"if jw's were so honest and this was the true religion that they really and i mean really believed was the truth, how come they never tell any of their return visits or children before babtizim that if they ever choose to think differently and believe differently and decides they no longer want to be one of jehovahs witness, they will be shunned by all former friends and last but not least family??!!
do you really think if they were told this "disclosure" at the time of studying they would continue?
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Dogpatch
Try "[hypothetically] If you found out this was not the TRUTH, what would you do?"
Nothing more - an intro for the next encounter. :-))
Plant seeds that irritate them but bother them because they know it's a dilemma.
Randy
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Blood Watchtower's Misrepresentative
by Marvin Shilmer inblood watchtower's misrepresentative .
today i added a new article to my blog addressing remarks made by one of watchtowers misrepresentatives.
like so many others, he presents information that is at odds with verifiable data.
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Dogpatch
Gene Smalley and Fred Rusk shoulder all the responsibility for making and breaking current blood doctrine. Nice to know you have to live or die because of what two secluded old men think.
Gene Smalley and the Blood Doctrine
Argue blood til yer blue in the face and it all comes down to this.
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My Favorite Book About Bethel by Randy Watters
by Dogpatch inmy favorite bethel bookrandy watters.
vignettes of this famous author's life, as reviewed from her out-of-print book, "visions of glory--a history and a memory of jehovah's witnesses" (new york: simon and schuster, 1978).
barbara gave exclusive rights to her book to randy just months before she passed away in 2002. the whole book is available as a pdf download from the free minds store.. .
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Dogpatch
She is a model writer because she is a real person andf doesn't gloss things over. Also pretty funny. Look at her qualifications!
Randy
Journalism, travel writing and fiction
Harrison wrote for many of the leading periodicals of her time, including The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, The New Republic, Harper's, The Atlantic Monthly, The Village Voice, The Nation, Ladies' Home Journal and Mother Jones magazine. Among the people she interviewed were Red Barber, Mario Cuomo, Jane Fonda, Gore Vidal, Joan Didion, Francis Ford Coppola, Nadia Comaneci , Alessandra Mussolini and Barbara Bush. Because of her background, Harrison was often asked to write about movements that were perceived to be cults; she described families affected by the Unification Church and the Northeast Kingdom Community Church, and reported on the U.S. government's deadly standoff with the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas.
Harrison published two collections of her essays and interviews: Off Center (1980) and The Astonishing World (1992). Her 1992 Harper's essay "P.C. on the Grill", which lampooned the "philosophy" of popular TV chef The Frugal Gourmet, was included in the 1993 edition of Best American Essays.
Harrison also wrote numerous travel articles covering destinations all over the world. She published two books about her travels in Italy, Italian Days (1989) and The Islands of Italy: Sicily, Sardinia, and the Aeolian Islands (1991).
In 1984 Harrison published a novel, Foreign Bodies. She won an O. Henry Award for short fiction in 1989.
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My Favorite Book About Bethel by Randy Watters
by Dogpatch inmy favorite bethel bookrandy watters.
vignettes of this famous author's life, as reviewed from her out-of-print book, "visions of glory--a history and a memory of jehovah's witnesses" (new york: simon and schuster, 1978).
barbara gave exclusive rights to her book to randy just months before she passed away in 2002. the whole book is available as a pdf download from the free minds store.. .
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Dogpatch
Sorry, some of the links were wrong, these are correct:
These are the list of news, an article, and partial clips from the chapters of her book "Visions of Glory" by Barbara Grizzuti Harrison (1978: Simon and Shuster, now out of print):
Barbara Grizzuti Harrison, Author and Essayist, Dies at 67
What Could Be More Tempting Than An Exclusive Club Run By God Himself
CHAPTERS: (only partial clips from each chapter)
N. H. Knorr, Bethel, and Jews - Barbara was personally acquainted with the Watchtower's third president, Nathan Knorr. Knorr could be nasty.
God can't kill Arnold - Barbara discovers a man of real love for others and herself.
Bloody Religion - Barbara learns to walk a tightrope from an early age.
Celibacy - Witnesses frown on marriage in the 40s.
Masturbation - Barbara learns about "unnatural acts."
Transfusions - Vaccinations, transfusions, and the grief of a parent losing her children, then viewed as "apostate" for that grief.
Transfusions - Vaccinations, transfusions, and the grief of a parent losing her children, then viewed as "apostate" for that grief.
Unevenly Yoked - Barbara's mother was a Witness, her father was not. What the "unbeliever" and the child go through in the process.
Charity and Goodness - Witnesses are taught to avoid the charities of the world.
The Yellow Convertible, and Mike - Barbara discovers the lack of joy in everything.
Bethel - "Nobody ever told me that all believers doubt, or that the logical consequence of the possession of free will is to question, or that even mystics have at times felt abandoned by the God they adore; what a lot of misery it would have saved me if someone had told me."
Leaving - "I could not foresee the consequences of leaving; but I knew that the act itself was necessary, that I must not try to anticipate the consequences, and that the consequences of not acting would be worse than anything that might happen to me afterward."
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My Favorite Book About Bethel by Randy Watters
by Dogpatch inmy favorite bethel bookrandy watters.
vignettes of this famous author's life, as reviewed from her out-of-print book, "visions of glory--a history and a memory of jehovah's witnesses" (new york: simon and schuster, 1978).
barbara gave exclusive rights to her book to randy just months before she passed away in 2002. the whole book is available as a pdf download from the free minds store.. .
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Dogpatch
Randy Watters
Vignettes of this famous author's life, as reviewed from her out-of-print book, "Visions of Glory--A History and a Memory of Jehovah's Witnesses" (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978). Barbara gave exclusive rights to her book to Randy just months before she passed away in 2002. The whole book is available as a PDF download from the Free Minds Store.
CHAPTERS (only partial clips from each chapter)
N. H. Knorr, Bethel, and Jews - Barbara was personally acquainted with the Watchtower's third president, Nathan Knorr. Knorr could be nasty.
God can't kill Arnold - Barbara discovers a man of real love for others and herself.
Bloody Religion - Barbara learns to walk a tightrope from an early age.
Celibacy - Witnesses frown on marriage in the 40s.
Masturbation - Barbara learns about "unnatural acts."
Transfusions - Vaccinations, transfusions, and the grief of a parent losing her children, then viewed as "apostate" for that grief.
Unevenly Yoked - Barbara's mother was a Witness, her father was not. What the "unbeliever" and the child go through in the process.
Charity and Goodness - Witnesses are taught to avoid the charities of the world.
The Yellow Convertible, and Mike - Barbara discovers the lack of joy in everything.
Bethel - "Nobody ever told me that all believers doubt, or that the logical consequence of the possession of free will is to question, or that even mystics have at times felt abandoned by the God they adore; what a lot of misery it would have saved me if someone had told me."
Leaving - "I could not foresee the consequences of leaving; but I knew that the act itself was necessary, that I must not try to anticipate the consequences, and that the consequences of not acting would be worse than anything that might happen to me afterward."
Visions of Glory
Barbara discovers there "is no voluntary resignation in the organization."
There is no voluntary resignation in our organization, Covington told a jury in the Moyle case.
For years after I left Bethel, I dreamed that I was back in the antiseptic halls of the Watchtower residence, fighting to find a way out. At each EXIT sign a Witness stood, smiling, barring my way: "There is no way out.' The dream was trite; my fear was fresh and vivid and palpable.
Since my departure, I have had a series of strange encounters with Watchtower elders, each one puzzling, each one a walking version of the stale nightmare.
On Christmas Day, 1968, a member of the Watchtower headquarters staff rang my doorbell and asked, "Are you Connie Grizzuti's daughter who used to be associated with the Lord's sheep?" I leaped at once to the conclusion that something had happened to my mother. I had thought that I was 'killing" my mother by leaving her religion; the appearance of that man one Christmas— the holiday we had regarded as devilish and abominable, the holiday that had drawn my mother and me together in sisterly mutual defiance of the world— triggered the guilt I had never been able to expiate. My mother is dead, I thought; I really have killed her.
The reality, less awful, was quite odd enough: "It has come to our attention," the man said, "that in 1963 you were observed making obeisance in the Shiva temple in Warangal, India. You are also known to have made the sign of the cross while passing a Roman Catholic Church in Guatemala City. These are grounds for disfellowshipping. If you can prove, before a group of elders, that you are innocent of the charges, disfellowshipping charges will be halted. If we remain convinced of your guilt, you may be reinstated in the Lord's organization if you beg forgiveness. If we judge you guilty and you do not confess, you will be disfellowshipped. If you refuse to appear before the elders, you will be automatically disfellowshipped."
Odd indeed. There was this silly, but somehow sinister, man underneath my Christmas tree (in itself proof of perfidy), and there were my children, looking no less startled than if Santa Claus himself had popped out of the chimney. And there was I, feeling menaced, understanding the absurdity of such feelings, but nonetheless frightened.
I said, "Wouldn't it be redundant to disfellowship me? After all, I left ten years ago of my own accord." He said, "But you can't leave. You can never leave us. We can expel you. But you, having been baptized into The Truth, are one of us until we say you're not."
I declined—I did not have the reporter's avarice for collecting facts or experience then— to appear before the elders. And I was frightened. (I did rather mischievously offer him some Christmas punch, which he waved away with a shudder of distaste.)
They did not disfellowship me; I don't know why. A friend who once worked in the "Service Department" of Bethel, which handles disfellowshipping procedures, suggests that some technicality may have gotten in the way. Perhaps somewhere along the line, a technical procedure had been violated. In any case, I was left to wonder if they had spies who followed former Witnesses around the world to collect evidence.
It was not until 1974 that I was paid another official visit.
Years before, I had converted a young Brooklyn girl who had later married a Bethelite. They had been assigned to circuit overseer work in Alabama. Lee and Donald, having returned from their assignment, came to pay me a "friendly visit." I had fond memories of them both. I remembered Lee as a spunky, sweet, feisty kid, not overly serious, given to easy laughter. Donald, twenty years her senior, had had impressive reserve and movie-star-perfect good looks. He was serious about everything. We'd had, before he met Lee, a couple of dates. He was courteous, contained, formal. We went roller-skating; he was austere even in a roller-skating rink. (I liked him.) He did nothing casually; I should not have been surprised when he said, in firm, measured tones— spacing each word to give it weight— "I'd like this relationship to deepen beyond friendship." But I was taken aback by what seemed, even for a repressed Bethelite, to be an overly calculated approach to romance. I made one of those hopelessly inadequate, awkward speeches that begins, "I like you too much to encourage you...." Still, I had been flattered, and I could not but regard him with affection.
I had not seen either of them for close to twenty years. The years had added dignity to Donald's almost-too-regular features; he was, if anything, more handsome than ever. Tomboy Lee had taken on some of her husbands coloration; she too now spoke in firm, measured tones, and I missed her careless spontaneity. She was dressed in what is called a matrons "ensemble," everything matching. She took in my cluttered living room with a swift, practiced glance and said, "It looks like a writer's house." (I took that as a reproach.) There was perfunctory conversation.
The first thing Donald said was that he hadn't come to "blackmail" or to ''spank," me. He spoke of the "rife immorality" in the world today and requested my 11-year-old daughter, who was finding all of this fascinating, to leave the room so that he could discuss rife immorality. I replied that there was not much that could surprise my daughter (who had meanwhile kicked me in the shins to signal her unwillingness to depart) and that I felt perfectly free to speak in front of her.
Donald: "Do you consider yourself one of Jehovah's Witnesses?"
B. H.: "Of course not. "
Donald: "What would you like the congregations to think of you?"
B.H.: "What they think of me is up to them, surely."
Donald: "When you were baptized into the New World Society you took up citizenship in a new order. Are you renouncing your citizenship?"
To that question I had no ready answer; it seemed preposterous that anyone should ask it.
Donald: "There are several reasons for leaving The Truth. One, you reject doctrine. Two, you have had personal conflicts with individual Witnesses or with the organization. Three, you have committed immoral acts and your shame keeps you away. Which of these reasons applies to you?"
I shrank from the inquisition. I had looked forward to seeing Lee and Donald—partly out of curiosity; partly out of a notion that, once friends, we could find common ground; and partly, I guess, out of arrogance. Perhaps if I explained myself, I might be able to dent their certainty. I did want to explain myself. My tentative efforts were impatiently received by Donald. He parried everything I said with Scripture. Donald seemed genuinely to believe that people's motives were always clear to them.
"Did you know what you were doing when you were baptized?"
"But I was nine years old!"
"But did you know what you were doing?"
(My daughter, Anna, said later that it was like a TV game show: Donald was the moderator— with all the answers and all the questions— and I was his contestant.)
Donald grew clearly weary (my answers tended to be long). "Let's concentrate on immorality," he said.
My daughter settled herself in with a pleased anticipatory sigh. She had spent much of the previous week airing her opinions on abortion (pro) and open marriage (con), and she was eager, I could see, to engage herself in what she assumed would be a freewheeling discussion of morality and mores.
Donald said to his wife, the tone of his voice straightening Anna's spine, "Lee, I'd like you and Anna to leave the room. I'm sure Anna would like to show you her bedroom."
Anna, a dutiful hostess, departed as gracefully as thwarted curiosity would allow.
"I have asked the girls to leave so that if you wish to confide your immorality to me, you can do so privately. I will pray over you, if you like, so that the Lord's spirit may return to you. "
When Anna returned, having stayed away for what she judged a decent interval, Donald was still discussing "rife immorality." Anna, grabbing her chance, offered, "Well, I kind of agree with you about immorality. I don't think anybody should fuck unless they really love each other."
Donald and Lee stood up to leave. Donald advised me that if I persisted in my course of action, I stood the risk of being disfellowshipped— like my friend Walter— "And then none of the Lord's people will ever be able to speak to you again."
Anna demanded, "You don't talk to Walter? But he's a good person. He's nice. That's not religion!"
Later she said, "They act pleasant. But they're not nice."
"Well, they're nice if you're one of them," I said.
"That's not nice," Anna said.
As Donald and Lee marched down the stairs, Donald called back over his shoulder, "Remember, we came here because we love you. We didn't come to spank you. We won't put in an official report on this. This was a friendship visit."
Three days later, Donald phoned. He proposed to visit with a committee of elders from the congregation to administer "spiritual discipline." I acquiesced almost hungrily. I had found my anger. And I wanted to know, What next?
I was convinced that this time they would inaugurate disfellowshipping procedures against me. I also felt that I needed protection, though I didn't know quite from what. I asked my brother if he would be with me when they came. My brother, though he wishes that I didn't feel compelled to write about the Witnesses, for our mother's sake, is absolutely decent and could not, furthermore, resist this "call upon the blood." He came and sat waiting, stern-faced, for whoever was to dare insult his sister. Donald came not with a committee of three, but with a single member of the headquarters staff. The agenda had been changed: no spiritual discipline, he said, just a talk. (Their motives and their actions were, and are, entirely obscure to me.) Donald asked my brother to leave the room. "Why do you need protection?" he asked. "What are you afraid of?"
My brother prevented me from having to answer. "I'm my sister's brother," he said, "and I'm not going anywhere. Anything my sister says, she says it to me too. Nothing she says could make me love her less. She's honest, she won't lie whether I'm here or not, and the two of you came together like two nuns, so I'm staying. Now what's your story?"
Donald offered a repeat of his previous performance. There were veiled hints of dire consequences if I did not "turn around and confess"; there was explicit spiritual blackmail: I would die at Armageddon. But Donald and his friend seemed to run out of energy; they began to talk about me in the third person, as if I weren't there. They started to preach to my brother.
He said, "Hey. You can't get my sister. So now you're hitting on me? Have some respect. You're in my sister's house."
They left. My brother and I looked at each other. "What was that all about?'' he said. I said I had no idea.
The rules—games—are often obscure. A young friend of mine left the Witnesses and made absolutely clear to them her determination not to return. She sent a letter announcing her determination to the Watchtower Society— which didn't deign to reply— and another to her local congregation. She did receive a certified letter from the local congregation, regretting that she no longer wished to join with them in Christian worship and indicating that they would respect her decision. The letter went on, however to state that the congregation had been informed that she had indulged in certain indiscreet actions of an unchristian nature (and that they had witnesses), and wished to meet with her to discuss the matter, giving a date and place for the meeting and urging her to reply.
(p. 154-158)
Excerpts from Visions of Glory index
______________________
A guest writes about Visions of Glory:
That marvelous book of hers, VISIONS OF GLORY, could very well have saved my life, more than once. Back in 1980, when I was, for the first time, studying VERY earnestly, my dad met me for dinner and brought up the subject of JWs. He and my mother were quite opposed and beyond frustrated, their bratty 23 year old daughter thinking she had ALL the answers. To make a long story short, he handed me this book!!! I never thought to ask him who recommended it, etc. Once I started reading, I couldn't stop, even as I found myself saying "baloney!", "not true!", "she's wrong!". She is such an excellent writer!!! I talked to my "friends" at the Kingdom Hall about this "disturbing" book, which they, naturally, attributed to Satan; still, I couldn't stop reading. So many of the words of ex-witnesses could have written by me; I'm getting choked up as I recall, more than 20 years later (I haven't seen the book for about half that long; my copy fell apart after repeat readings, and then I took it out of the library for the last time 10 years ago when I was a couple of months away from my baptism date), the story of the young Puerto Rican man breaking down in tears when asked how he felt at the thought of loved ones being destroyed at Armageddon (I hope you've read the book!)....and the young Russian woman named Vera, and the anonymous woman who expressed her feelings by saying, "all of a sudden I have these heavy questions....", "why DOES God permit suffering? Why, if he loves?", "Maybe God HAS taken his spirit away from me....." Anyway, I ended my association not long after reading THAT BOOK! After LOTS of tears, nightmares, talks with elders, etc.
Fast forward to 1987, newly married, restless, longing for "spiritual fulfillment" that I didn't find in my marriage; started studying again, stopped, started, got THAT BOOK out of the library, then, BAM! She's OUT, AGAIN, score one for SATAN!!!! :) Now to 1990; ecstatic new mother, desperate to stay married though I was miserable with my then-husband, turned to God, which I still thought was with the Witnesses, if he even existed. I got wrapped up in a study, meetings, etc., even though I came home in tears after repeatedly witnessing episodes of children being spanked, slapped, etc., trying with all my might to believe that God would give me the strength to die, or let my son die, before accepting a blood transfusion (I was thankful that my son's dad was "opposed", so that he could take over and authorize it, should my son EVER need it), hoping with all of me that my husband would cheat on me so that I could get a "scriptural" divorce, why, oh why did I need THAT BOOK??? Anyway, it was STILL in the Bloomfield library, waiting for me.... And that was the end of THAT!!!
Oh, by the way, I got divorced very soon after leaving. FOR GOOD. Until this past Sunday (1/14), when a lovely couple came knocking at my door, and I actually, for a number of reasons, felt a spark of interest; now that we have the internet, I don't need to stop at the library. Here you are!!!!! And here I am to THANK YOU!! And Barbara, do you know how I can reach her, or can you pass this along to her??? I'm so sorry that my dad passed away without my asking him where he heard about that splendid book!!!!
Sincerely,
Ellen
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Read S. Hassan's Book: Do JW's really fit the cult mold?
by simon17 infirst time i got a chance to read his book, "combatting cult mind control" and was interested to see if jw's fell into the cult mold.
my opinion after carefully reading and having left the witnesses after almost 30 years is... no, they don't.
however, i would add that they wish they were but are simply too big and unwieldy to really pull it off.
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Dogpatch
Written by Randall Watters Tuesday, 23 December 2008 17:09 Understanding Mind Control Among Jehovah's Witnesses
Much has been written on the biblical approach. A few books have been written which document the Watchtower's false prophecies and changes as well, such as Thus Saith Jehovah's Witnesses. However, very little has yet been written clarifying their particular technique of mind control. I believe many will benefit from a new approach in talking to friends and relatives who are caught up in the Jehovah's Witnesses.
The first two techniques mentioned above have their merits, and they should not be neglected in reaching the Witness. Indeed, we need all the tools we can muster in reaching out to free them from mind control. Yet I believe that a person who is trying to reach Jehovah's Witnesses must truly understand the mindset of the person they are ministering to before they can set them free in many situations.
Two excellent books have been published by Steven Hassan called Combatting Cult Mind Control and Releasing the Bonds. Having worked with Steve personally (and with good results), I feel that this type of information needs to be applied specifically to Jehovah's Witnesses.
What is "Mind Control"?
While many have spoken of the methods used by the cults as a form of brainwashing (a forced reprogramming of a person's thoughts), a more apt designation would be mind control. Hassan clarifies the difference between the two:
Mind control, also called `thought reform,' is more subtle and sophisticated [than brainwashing]. Its perpetrators are regarded as friends or peers, so the person is much less defensive. He unwittingly participates by cooperating with his controllers and giving them private information that he does not know will be used against him. The new belief system is internalized into a new identity structure.
Mind control involves little or no overt physical abuse. Instead, hypnotic processes are combined with group dynamics to create a potent indoctrination effect. The individual is deceived and manipulated--not directly threatened into making the prescribed choices. On the whole, he responds positively to what is done to him. (p. 56)
Hassan constructs his methodology from his own personal experiences, as well as Robert J. Lifton's classic study, Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism and Leon Festinger's "cognitive dissonance theory" and its three marks of mind control. Hassan adds one more to make four:
* control of behavior
* control of thoughts
* control of emotions
* control of information
These methods, when used by unscrupulous cults, form a powerful tool for seducing converts. The appeal is not just to the ignorant and gullible, either; the best recruits are often quite intelligent.
What's Wrong with Mind Control?
Using mind control is a question of ethics in today's society; not all forms of mind control are harmful. Advertising and sales pitches seek to influence our minds daily. What we must take issue with, however, are certain methods of mind control employed that are not understood by the person seeking help. Often they do not know what they are getting into (until it's too late). Religious cults employ mind control tactics that are kept secret from the rank and file members; that is one reason why they are called cults. Cults believe that "the end justifies the means" when it comes to making converts. They sincerely believe that they have the only answers to life's problems, and since most people "don't know what is good for them," the cult leaders assume the role of "parents" to the victim, often referring to themselves as their "mother" or "father." Unlike a good parent who explains what he is doing to the child, however, the cult leader finds it to his advantage to keep the recruit as much in the dark as possible, preferring obedience and blind loyalty to making full disclosure. Cult leaders are sophisticated when it comes to understanding human nature! They know that the average person would object to the indoctrination program if they really understood the whole picture, so information is provided on a "need to know" basis only.
This reveals the underlying foundation of cult leadership--a total lack of faith in the neophyte's ability to make responsible decisions. The neophyte is viewed as a worthless individual unless their entire way of thinking is overhauled. They must have their minds swept clean of former ways of reacting to life's situations, and then reprogrammed entirely. The cult's program of mind control will ultimately only work if the person sublimates their former personality.
Hope for the Deceived
Is it a waste of time to try and get a Jehovah's Witness out of the organization after being in it for years? It might seem that way to outsiders. The blind zeal and imperviousness to critical thought on the part of the Witness might appear permanent to the relative trying to rescue their loved one caught up in the Watchtower.
Yet the organization itself is aware of the need to constantly drill their subjects with the same material week after week, lest the individual begin to think and act like the others who live and work around them once more. Sometimes all it takes is a long vacation from the Kingdom Hall activities, a time of emotional depression, or a bad experience with another Witness to spark doubt in the mind of the Witness. Many simply get tired of the very mind control process itself, and their cult identity loses its attraction.
Any exposure whatever to literature about mind control methods or experiences of others from various mind control cults may spark new or resurfaced doubts in the Witness mind. The goal is to help them see clearly that the Watchtower is no different than hundreds of other religious organizations that use the very same phobias, promises and mind control methods to seduce and retain their members. Such comparisons are devastating. Nothing can be more effective than a well-planned "casual" discussion between the Witness and a former member of another cult who simply feels like talking about his or her experience in the cult, without their even inferring the Witness is in a cult. One of the very first alarms that went off in my mind a year before my exiting the Watchtower was the reading of a Reader's Digest article on religious cults that, to my remembrance, didn't even mention the Watchtower. Something just clicked inside, as I asked my roommate, "Why doesn't the Watchtower reach out to cult victims?" Little did I know where attempting to answer that haunting question would lead. Freedom, for me at least, was just around the corner.
Understanding Watchtower Mind Control
I have found in the vast majority of cases where Christians are trying to talk to a Jehovah's Witness about the errors of the Watchtower, they are unable to relate to the Witness at all. They may be well acquainted with Watchtower theology, but then proceed as if the Witness is simply lacking factual material, naively assuming that once presented with the truth, the Witness will give his faith up and become a Christian. This almost never works.
The basic assumption of this approach is that (1) the person is merely lacking accurate information, and (2) once presented with the truth, it will "trouble" them enough to make an intelligent decision to leave the Watchtower. They are thereby making two generally false assumptions: that the person has not heard information critical of the Watchtower, and that the Witness is objective enough in their thinking to weigh the truthfulness of the Watchtower on their own.
It is uncommon to find a JW who has not seen or heard information exposing the dishonesty of the Watchtower. Why, then, do they not see a problem? Evidently, something else has prevented them from objectively analyzing factual information. Their minds are trained to stop short of doubting the organization. A wall has been erected which says, in effect, "This far you may go, and no further." The Christian or concerned relative does not realize that the person is a victim of mind control, and whatever biases or presuppositions that have been placed in their minds by the Watchtower will effectively prevent the JW from seeing things objectively.
One could liken it to a child who loves her mother very much (and who is loved by the mother) discovering that her mother is on trial for first degree murder in a court of law. Not yet having the maturity to understand human nature and the complexities of personalities, the child will be overwhelmingly driven by her feelings towards her mother and almost always reject (though without factual basis) any efforts to convince her that her mother is a murderer.
The illustration is not far off from what actually occurs within the mind of the Jehovah's Witness. The JW is taught that the organization is the "mother," and that Jehovah is the Father. Since Jehovah does not speak directly to the JW, he must rely on the organization for guidance and instruction. The JW is reminded over and over how trustworthy the "mother" is and how he cannot get along without her. Anyone else who tries to help the JW is viewed as "of the devil" and is considered dangerous. Since the JW is part of a family with its normal amount of brotherhood and togetherness (five meetings a week), the feeling of being safe and even "loved" reinforces what the "mother" is saying. The "mother" has taught him not to listen to anything critical of her, calling it satanic; thereby preventing the JW from thinking objectively and causing him to react with strong emotions whenever he senses a critical spirit towards the Watchtower. The JW will simply not question the motives or truthfulness of the "mother." Only if he begins to lose faith in the claims or nurturing ability of the mother (thereby breaking the emotional bond) will he start to think a little more objectively.
What Actually Does Work?
How does one plant doubts in the Witness mind about the truthfulness or nurturing ability of the Watchtower? Some have thought to do this by means of using Bible verses that the Watchtower misinterprets, showing them what the original Greek text really says, or how the organization has changed their interpretation over the years. There are two major pitfalls to this method, however. The first is, the Witness knows the Watchtower will have an answer to virtually ANY question that comes up in a conversation. The Witness is not trained to question the validity of their answer, only to be satisfied that the "mother" HAS an answer. So the Witness knows that even though he is stumped at the doorstep, he can go back to their books and magazines and get an answer. He thereby sidesteps any uncomfortableness that comes from not having an answer on the spot. In fact, he will often volunteer to come back with an answer. In the interim, the other Witnesses will convince him that the person challenging the Watchtower is not really interested in the truth, but is actually an "opposer of the truth." Therefore, few Witnesses ever actually do return to answer the questions of those critical to the Watchtower or its interpretations. As a Witness, I often did not return (nor did I offer), thinking to myself that I was wasting my time with someone who was "negative and not interested in the truth."
As a response to this pattern, some ministries have actually adopted the stance of not using the Bible at all with the Witness until they feel they are ready to discuss it objectively. While this may come as a surprise to many Christians, once you understand the intricacies of their mind control, it makes much more sense.
Others have sought to plant seeds of doubt about the "motherhood" of the Watchtower organization by pointing out their false prophecies and contradictions between faith and practice. This generally takes the form of showing them old Watchtower literature where they said one thing, then comparing that with what they say presently. Or, it may include pointing out the inconsistencies of Watchtower policy, such as their condoning the loss of homes and lives of tens of thousands of Witnesses in the African country of Malawi a few years ago (because of not buying a 25-cent party card) with the Watchtower's current condoning of bribery and military service by the JW in Mexico.
While this "using their own literature against them" approach can be used in situations where the person is actually willing to look at what you have in the way of evidence, most of the JWs will not look at anything that is critical of the Watchtower. Thus, in most cases, this approach will not prove effective. Most of the success in using old Watchtower literature has come when the JW's mind is somewhat open and they already possess a measure of objectivity. In that case, use whatever works! The major obstacle has been overcome.
Most will find, however, that one's conversation with the Witness must not directly involve the Watchtower, unless it is in a positive note. They simply will not listen to you for long otherwise. What, then, can one do?
Opening the Closed Mind by Discussion
One of the best way to reach a biased person and gently expose their bias (without offending their ego) is to have discussions on issues that have distinct similarities to the Watchtower brand of mind control, but of which they have no particular vested interest. For instance, Jehovah's Witnesses consider Mormons and the Moonies to be cults, but on the basis of their doctrines rather than their methodology. JWs will not be familiar with the mind control methods used by cults, so to share the methods of, let's say, the Moonies, will probably take them by surprise. As you discuss the four levels of control of the Unification Church over its members in terms of thought control, emotional control, control of behavior and of information, the Witness just may turn out to be a captive audience. You are not threatening them or their organization, after all! But what if they suspect you are trying to say that the Watchtower is like the Moonies?
It is therefore important to be as casual and inoffensive as possible when dealing with the JW. Since their training is to resist anything critical of the Watchtower, you must avoid discussing the Watchtower when trying to draw parallels in their mind. If you are, for instance, trying to explain the control of information as used by the Moonies, you do not want to simultaneously compare them with the Watchtower. Let the JW draw their own conclusions! Give them the benefit of the doubt that they are smart enough to sense the similarities in time...and time is what they need. Experience has shown that it might take several informal sessions of discussing mind control methods as used by other religious groups or political groups before the JW even begins to get the point. Watch movies together with them that are based on mind control themes. Give them time, and let them draw their own conclusions. They must make the information their own; it is their life.
Using A "Chance" Conversation
A proven method as used by professional exit counselors of cult members is to set up a planned conversation with the JW, who will hopefully not be threatened by it. People are not usually intimidated by someone sitting next to them at a bus stop or on the airplane or waiting in line or at the grocery store if the conversation comes up casually.
For instance: A man has a wife who is a JW, and he wants her to be free from Watchtower mind control. He knows the futility of arguing with her or trying to show her old Watchtower material that might show them up to be false prophets. So he arranges for an ex-Mormon or Moonie to sit next to her on some occasion while traveling, and the ex-cultist strikes up an informal conversation about what they used to be involved in, at the same time not asking the JW too many questions or being overly curious. The JW will often feel more at ease if the stranger doesn't even know they are a JW, especially if the subject is religious organizations that are mutually recognized as cults. Witnesses are not stupid; they know others consider them to be a cult, so they usually prefer to keep a low profile in such conversations. The stranger's job is not to show them the Watchtower is a cult, but to help them to see the similarities between the cults and their own faith in their own minds. That is simply too embarrassing. Jehovah's Witnesses must ultimately face what they have done with their own life. You are simply giving them opportunity to think objectively once more (something they may have unwittingly given up long ago with regards to the Bible or God).
Several well-planned conversations of this type can do much to prepare the ground for more intensive discussions, which are also planned in advance. The family member or Christian who is working to get the JW out of the Watchtower befriends an ex-cultist (not an ex-JW!) and invites him/her over for dinner. It is important that the JW is not intimidated, so please, no preaching allowed! (unless it is very clear that the Holy Spirit is moving you in this direction). The conversation should be directed towards subjects such as:
* manipulative techniques used by their former religion
* why they felt it was the "truth"
* how they woke up to the control they were under (avoid making this a religious discussion)
* how ex-members treated them and why they were considered apostates
* how the group they were in changed their doctrine or made false prophecies (again, avoid discussing the Scriptures)
* the fear and guilt fostered by the cult
* the false confidence the cult inspired
* the subtle self-righteousness the cult fostered
* the cult's ignorance of historic Christianity
The reader may be disturbed by the idea of not using the Bible at first. It must be understood that picking up the Bible triggers a "mode" of thought to the Witness. Though they are really ignorant of much of the Scriptures in context, they really feel at home in such discussions. Your goal is to get them into an area of uncomfortability; an area of thinking that does not come automatically to them. You are promoting thought on issues that they have conveniently brushed aside or never considered. Bringing out the Bible at such an inappropriate time will only snap them out of their pensive thoughtfulness (that you have painstakingly created) and restore their full confidence that they know all about the Bible and that you are not in "the truth," and therefore have no business trying to teach them. Many a Christian has shipwrecked their efforts to share with the Witness by getting into "Bible discussions." The sad part is that the Christian actually thinks they are getting through to the Witness by bringing up certain Scriptures or fine points they can't answer, yet the true fruitage is obvious when the JW will not talk to them again. They have not won the case at all; the Witness still believes that "they know the Bible and that they have the truth."
Fear of Apostasy
Apostates often appeal to the ego, claiming that we have been deprived of our freedoms, including the freedom to interpret the Bible for ourselves. (Compare Genesis 3:15.) In reality, these would-be defilers offer nothing more than a return to the nauseating teachings of "Babylon the Great." (Revelation 17:5; 2 Peter 2:19-22) Others appeal to the flesh, urging former associates to "take it easy" because the humble work of witnessing from house to house is "unnecessary" or "unscriptural." (Compare Matthew 16:22,23.) True, such smooth talkers may look outwardly clean in a physical and moral way. But inside they are spiritually unclean, having given in to prideful, independent thinking. They have forgotten all that they learned about Jehovah....
"Typical words to be found within the pages of The Watchtower," a former Jehovah's Witness would say, regarding the above quote from the Watchtower of November 1, 1987 (p. 19,20). In fact, you might want to compare not only the message but the attitude behind it with the statement made by the Watchtower from their article on "An Open or a Closed Mind: Which Do You Have?" (Awake!, 11/22/84, p. 3,4). "Slurs and innuendoes" are indeed a mark of prejudice and a closed mind. Almost every Jehovah's Witness who decides to leave the Watchtower organization has had other members of his congregation make up lies about why they left or what their problem was. The JWs must comfort themselves with the thought that those who leave are certainly proud, despise door-to-door work or are homosexuals or prostitutes. "There is no honorable way out of this organization," some have said candidly.
I remember the spirit that was manifest among the Brooklyn headquarters of the Governing Body in 1979-1980 when word got out that their own Writing Department had discovered flaws in their dating system. This was information that was to be kept under wraps. To talk about it would bring doubts into the minds of the brothers, it was said. At times I heard factory overseers say, "You just can't trust the brothers." They had to be watched and policed, for fear they would get out of line. The flow of information had to be controlled, lest their tiny minds misunderstand it or develop new liberties in the flesh. I remember how Nathan Knorr, third president of the Watchtower, kept the Bethelites working a half a day every Saturday for years, because three or four brothers were killed in a car accident on a long weekend trip.
While life at Bethel may have eased over the years, the control over one's life pattern for all Witnesses has increased. Witnesses are not to have parties, special meetings on their own, develop their own public talks, or act as spokesmen for the Watchtower Society nowadays. The ever-increasing restrictions speak only too clear that the Watchtower trusts its own followers less and less. What is the reason for this trend?
Disturbing Similarities
Most cults based on the Bible go through similar transition stages. They begin by promising freedom from church tradition, false doctrine and hypocrisy. As time goes on and the prophecies fail and the people lose heart, the machine is kept going through new laws and requirements, designed to fortify the elitist mentality of the group. After all, to be the only true Christians requires a good outward appearance! As the idealism in the ranks wanes, it must be replaced with legalism and corporate mentality. Eventually, fear must become a motivating force to keep the people together. Fear of almost anything foreign to the group, including the devil, nonmembers, religious symbols, holidays, media programs, and especially ex-members. APOSTASY! is the word that strikes fear into their hearts, as the threat of dying at Armageddon, going to hell, or some other horrible fate is said to await them. Though "apostasy" means leaving the teachings of Christ in the Bible for another so-called "truth" (2 John 9,10), it is twisted around in the cults to mean the abandoning of one or more teachings of the cult as spelled out in its own publications. The Witness with doubts is not aware of the thousands of Mormons who have doubts, along with Moonies, Armstrongites, etc. who are struggling with crippling fear for the same reason. Cults believe that they are the only true religion, so to leave the organization is equated with leaving God Himself. Let us work and pray to set free the minds and hearts of those bound up with fear, through the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the mediator for "all men," regardless of what religious leaders may say. (1 Tim. 2:5,6)
reprint of the May-Aug 1989 Bethel Ministries Newsletters
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84
Heaven and Hell : Life after death
by bioflex ini am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
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Dogpatch
Who invents this stuff? It wasn't in the Old Testament, that's for sure.
Guess what!
The Pharisees got it all from the Greeks!!
tartarus
lake of fire
aoinios ton aoinios (forever and ever ringside god seats)
injurious fire that does not consume
hangnails
and a few things their church fathers left out (and not because they were conservative clips))
familiar spirits (well to be honest those showed up about the time of gnomes)
Forgive me. I'm Irish.
Dogz
