Posts by FuzzyPaul

54

CO spins the continuous faithful and discreet slave doctrine - explaining how ONE GENERATION OF SLAVE FED ANOTHER for 1900 years!

by LUKEWARM in

here are my notes from his service talk theme:.

isa 65:3 = we live in a rich spiritual paradise (isa 65:3).

what is the history of the faithful and discreet slave?.

FuzzyPaul

Cameo-d I PMed you tonight. Are you a night owl or do you live in Europe where the day is light? The WT is not my concern anymore, just to help people get out with reason and sanity. They have incredible powers of mind control. I don't care about their latest "New Light" v. 109.21 Beta version. It is only of interest to my if I can help someone see the fallacy of it.

The best C.O. I ever met told me privately that the brothers were the greatest threat he knew. Even a C.O. trying to be a good man is a victim of the culture in the org.

I got blacklisted for knowing and teaching too much truth. My comments in WT studies contradicted the thoughts presented when they were flawed. I knew the WT better than most any of them. It is shit. Quit touching the unclean thing.

Paul

54

CO spins the continuous faithful and discreet slave doctrine - explaining how ONE GENERATION OF SLAVE FED ANOTHER for 1900 years!

by LUKEWARM in

here are my notes from his service talk theme:.

isa 65:3 = we live in a rich spiritual paradise (isa 65:3).

what is the history of the faithful and discreet slave?.

FuzzyPaul

I like Agnus remark,

"I mean, this is like trying to build a particle accelerator out of Jell-O."

They state ideas with factual names and such and spin a fiction with themselves as the star protagonists.

The Catholic Church, Greek and Russian Orthodox, Ethiopian Christian church, and Jews throughout history have carried the torch of truth. The WT is run by Christian haters and Jew haters. When Israel became a nation in 1948 the Zionism promoted by Russell was opposed since that establishment of Israel was evidenced by miracles and appearances of angels from G-D. "Nominally Christian churches" is the most polite reference to traditional Christianity I ever read in any WT lit.

I go to Mass Saturday at 4pm and find incredible peace in my soul there. I attend Baptist church the rest of the week as they are my family. If you are still in the WT you don't know how wrong they are. Baptists have Lifeway literature. Better than any WT or AW. Books by Perry Stone, Jeffrey Grant, Blackaby, Beth Moore are awesome and excellent messages of truth and come from a heart at peace not at war. Our daily bread is better than any daily text of self deification. The yearbook is creative fiction with real persons lives portrayed.

My son has friends every day at Cornerstone Baptist. He gets Sunday school, studies, weekend Discipleship Now camp, basketball camp, summer camp, mission trips to Alabama and abroad. I had a few acquaintances as a youth.

The time between Assys is ridiculously long to meet your friends since you're not really allowed any outside your own hall - no bowling parties, dances, pic-nics with a mixed group of JWs from where-ever, ooh and make sure you bring an elder if there are more than 10.

I have so much and so little time to explain but read some of my recent posts and go to a Baptist service or similar for a rush of real Christianity. The culture shock might throw you but its real Christianity and free from the "No choir" "no nothing that looks like Catholic / Protestant practice" and "no terms from C/P practice" persecution and stranglehold of mind and conscience.

Jesus is the only road and your only support.

Blessings to all you and search deep within your heart if you are actually comfortable with WT lies and deceptions. That it all most of it is. I have more than enough truth and I know the authors by name. Read the Baptist Faith and Message available online. Its 1000 plus scripture references and minimal explanations make for a solid case that it is based on scripture not creative "logic".

PM me if you want to know more about going to Church after 45 years in the Watchtower and being raised a JW from age 2. It is OK. The demons won't invade you. Nothing can curse what God blesses.

Blessings and regards,

Paul

31

Frustrated with JW Bible study!

by ElizabethTravers in

i am new 2 this forum.. i have been meeting up with 2 jw ladies on a weekly basis.

it has all been "polite".

today we covered a bit of the trinity.. i had read rhodes book on reasoning from the scriptures with jw's, but i found almost all my arguments that i used, in terms of every bible verse we went through (or i attempted to go through with them) went pear shape!

FuzzyPaul

Elizabeth,

Ask, What is God? That is, what does the term mean? What does the term "worship" mean? In the Bible's use Jesus is termed "GOD".

The passage quoted by Peter on Pentecost displays that Peter equated Jehovah with Jesus. In John, Jesus thanks his father that the father gave him, Jesus, HIS NAME. The name is it - it's meaning is what it is all about.

At the end of Matthew Jesus says "All authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given to me," NOT IN 1874, 1914, 1915, 1925, 1975 or any other date. AT THE TIME OF HIS ASCENTION HE HAD ALL AUTHORITY ALREADY. He then says, because he had all authority, "Therefore go and preach ...." His authority gave him the personal ability to command the process of spreading the gospel. 1 Corinthians says that Jesus rules until he ends all the effects of sin and Satanic rule. Jesus has had 100% of all authority since his ascension and keeps it until the thousand years is over and the great judgement occurs. Which great judgement happens AFTER the thousand years is over, after Satan is released and then cast into the Lake of Fire.

The Watchtower's resurrection during the thousand years has NO SUPPORT in scripture. They say that the second resurrection happens during "the thousand year judgement day". Pure rubbish. It happens after. Hebrews states, "It has been appointed for all men to die once and after that a judgement." ONE chance to side with GOD and his ways. THe Watchtower's resurrection is actually re-incarnation. In reincarnation one comes back to another life to finish the work of being perfected - "Reaching Nirvana" to some minds.

If one is resurrected from unconscious non-existance to stand before the Judgement Seat of God after which some are condemned, only to be sent back to a state of unconscience non-existeance is nonsense. What point is there to wake you up, tell you that you are unworthy of eternal life and then to be returned to unconscious non-existance. Soul is NOT the BODY. All the scriptures stating body, soul, mind , strength, spirit in any combination would have redundant terms. We are a mechanical body with a zest for enjoyment of life which is our soul and containing a spirit which spirit is immortal. Plato wrote in The Republic, "gymnastics is for the body like music is for the soul." Download The Republic from M.I.T. or any other site and search it for "Soul". A word is defined by its usage and its usage meant to most any Greek speaker and reader just that - love of life, enjoyment of life. We are not just a physical machine. "Soul" is used to describe physical life, emotional life, spiritual life, disembodied state, it believes, loves, loves the Lord, seeks the Lord, serves the Lord, has fleshly lusts, has physical appetite, sins, desires evil but is purified by obedience. ( As taken from Strong's on page 192 of the section entitled "Universal Subject Guide To The Bible.")

We are made in God's image. A spirit with a form to operate through. Nothing else makes as much sense. Hell would then be considered plausible from the view of Jesus parable of the Rich man in Hades, and other references. Gehenna is a term understood to mean more than the town dump. Josephus wrote a treatise on the Jewish belief in Hell contradicting many of the Greek thoughts on Hell or Hades. Hades, the God, never released his captive dead from Hades the place. Paul said that there would be a return of all from the place Hades to stand before a Judge from God which idea was not allowed in Greek thought. Read Josephus on that subject. Josephus wrote about 70 years after Jesus left. Jesus parable of The Rich Man In Hades would have been understood in the context of prevailing thought. That Hades is a place where the person exists after death of the body. That there is torment in some parts and worse torments in some of those parts. That is what people by and large believed. He did not contradict those thoughts like he contradicted prevailing thoughts in The Sermon On The Mount.

(The Watchtower's teachings on Hell were not originated by any of them. Their beliefs are from an essay by Thomas Baldwin Thayer which predates them. Such a long essay deserves an answer. Any doctrine of a hundred scriptures which is disprovable by any other one scripture is flawed and fails. Examination of THE TERMS, and word meanings to a person of the time when such thoughts were written is an absolute must. Hell and an eternal spirit easily fit into many passages from the death of the patriarchs in Genesis to Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison while he was in the grave. Peter wrote that.)

In The Sermon On The Mount he taught that: you heard that it was said that you should hate your enemies but don't do that, LOVE your enemies, show them kindness, care, pray for them. Do Jehovah's Witnesses as taught by the Watchtower pray for their enemies? Or care for them kindly? Such blessing in prayer is almost forbidden to a WT follower. I never heard it happen. Nor did I ever hear them pray, as comanded by Apostle Paul, for the "King" at any time in any way in any meeting, assembly, convention, or group setting. Rather the Watchtower plainly teaches one to Hate, just like David wrote that he hated his and GOD's enemies. Jesus taught a new way, to love not hate those enemies. The Watchtower plainly taught how they preferred hatred.

I pray for those who read this website. To leave the Watchtower and come to Jesus for salvation. There is no salvation in any one else, no other name has been given by which we must be saved. I pray for the effectiveness of the words that explain real truth. Jesus is The Truth - he said so. I pray for a change of mind for those who are still in the Watchtower, it is a long road out doctrinally, emotionally, to a new self-identity.

All their actions contradicts the fruitage of the spirit which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control. A tree produces fruit according to its kind. A tree cannot choose what its fruit will be. God's spirit indwells one and one then has no choice - his behaviours are the fruitage of the Spirit of GOD. Those attributes can not be practiced consciously as if a behaviour could cause one to have God's spirit. God's spirit gives us ITS fruitage it is not our fruitage.

Wow, I have so many ideas proving the Watchtower wrong I can't stand it. I should write an essay and put it online at Randy Watter's site, Freeminds.

Regards,

Fuzzy Paul

31

Frustrated with JW Bible study!

by ElizabethTravers in

i am new 2 this forum.. i have been meeting up with 2 jw ladies on a weekly basis.

it has all been "polite".

today we covered a bit of the trinity.. i had read rhodes book on reasoning from the scriptures with jw's, but i found almost all my arguments that i used, in terms of every bible verse we went through (or i attempted to go through with them) went pear shape!

FuzzyPaul

Dear Elizabeth ,

You are in a favorable position having a resource that guides you through the false reasonings of the Watchtower. Russell never had a goal of restoring the Christianity of the Bible. He stated that he wanted "To prove the Free-Masonry of the Bible." I was a JW from age 3 in 1962 to 2006. I have heard that several times from persons in a family with over a hundred year history in the WT and others so I know its true. That was something I noted but thought was spurious at the time.

When I learned that the Watchtower joined the United Nations - something they absolutely swore they would never do and those who did were spoken against in the harshest of terms - I could not believe it. I said to my wife, well that does it, the Watchtower is being run by the Free Masons now! I think the UN is another org to control the World and the Masons are all over it. Oops. The lost dog found his way home.

I had great diffi-cult-y unlearning some ideas. My mentor, a retired seminary prof, was batting 300 during my first studies with him and now bats 950. Christendom mostly has it correct. (Christendom is a derogatory term to a JW but means the domain of Christ - like kingdom is a king's domain - so what is wrong with being in Christ's domain?)

A name is given by God to indicate something about that individual. God changed Abram's name to Abraham when he was promised to be the Father of many great nations. Joshua, Moses successor, name means "Saviour". So does "Jesus" which is the Greek version of Yehoshua. Isaiah 9 says that the messiah would be called "God with us" and would be called mighty God, eternal father, wonderful counselor, prince of peace. That prophecy means Jesus would be called "Mighty God". Just like JWs say - he is a mighty god not almighty therefore ... but that is a distraction (like Leodardo says in Catch Me If You Can, pinstripes), the point Isaiah was making is that HE WOULD BE CALLED ...GOD!

The Catholic Church was especially hated by the WT in Russell's time and still is because the Catholic Church forbid one to be a Free-Mason. They misrepresent traditional doctrines shared by Catholic and Protestant groups. The differences are mostly in FORM of WORSHIP not substance in teachings.

During the Catholic Mass one recites :

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose agin in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

That is so theologically sound and undeniable that it takes misrepresentation, twisted editing, obscure sources of dubious authority, rhetoric, to discredit.

One should review the Missal which has the standard parts of the mass in the front of the book and the content of each day's mass for the year. The Sunday mass has three long readings with an exposition on one. All I hear in Catholic services is Jesus Christ being taught, the Bible being taught and well at that, and God being honored above all. I hear very little self praise unlike the constant self-glorifying of the Watchtower.

I am a Southern Baptist. The difference is in governance of each independent congregation. The Southern Baptist Convention exists to pool resources to run Children's homes, support missionaries, and so-on. It is not a dictating, controlling, doctrine producing entity. We use it, it doesn't use or run us. The doctrine of Southern Baptists, and most all of the other Baptists, is found in the "Baptist Faith and Message" a small fold out tract sized document with over a thousand scriptures referenced. Google it, it is online.

The Baptist Faith and Message has none of the misleading filler found in Watchtower books to minimize the import of the Bible on a subject. The Watchtower leans heavily on their own words, even to the point of starting a quote of a Bible passage, closing the quotation marks inserting the WT idea, then reopening the quotation finishing the original passage's quote.

Over and over there are hundreds of Watchtower twists to the Bible's message. BUT THE BIGGEST WATCHTOWER ERROR is that they teach Salvation by Works. "Faith without works is dead." Faith produces good works, deeds, actions, behaviours. Works, deeds, actions, behaviours are external and can-not produce faith. An actor playing Hamlet is not Hamlet. He does not become what he acts out. Ephesians 2:8,9 has the greatest contradiction to WT version salvation. "Through no works of our own."

Love to all, Paul

25

The Story of SD-7 - Chapter 2

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

given that i'm very sensitive emotionally, i tend to avoid mentioning my personal life here if possible, preferring to stick to evaluation of watchtower publications and doctrine, particularly the newest material i can get my hands on.

but i felt it was time to talk again.

i hope at least some of you will be gentle.. i'm married now.

FuzzyPaul

SD-7,

May I suggest that you get a lifeway quarterly from a local Baptist Church (other churches use them too). They have different versions for different groups like parents or retirees. Get a Holman Christian Standard Bible from Wal-mart, a Christain book store, Barnes& Noble.

The Holman CSB is available here, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search= and many others.

I used the Kingdom Interlinear for years and I kept finding blatant changes, re-arranged passages, written in WT doctrine and my eyes slowly opened. The actual word-for-word Greek translation is on the left and the defective New World Order translation is the right column each page. Their own greek word-for-word condemned and doomed tem. Translating the Bible is a responsible thing and they changed it severely. Truth is not in them - they are not "The Truth". Jesus said, "I am ... The Truth." He is fully in charge (1 Cor 15 : 20 -28). All authority in heavon and on Earth was given to him right after his resurrection not 1900 years later in a fictional defectively calculated false "prophetic year" ( Matthew 28).

He who does not have The Son does not have The Father. They have doctrinally shoved Jesus off his throne, got on and put Jehovah back in charge when he is said to have given all authority to The Son. Why? They don't want Jesus. They don't recognize that "He will be called Mighty God", "God with us" (Isaiah 9). I have never heard them call Jesus Mighty God yet that is what one of His names is in that prophecy. They are not those who fulfill that prophecy. They knee jerk kick you in your shins and say "see, see it doesn't say almighty God" distracting you from the reality of the message. Remember Catch me if you can with Tom Hanks, Leonardo DiCaprio, its "pin stripes" a distraction.

Gotta eat. You still there?

Regards, Fuzzy

25

The Story of SD-7 - Chapter 2

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

given that i'm very sensitive emotionally, i tend to avoid mentioning my personal life here if possible, preferring to stick to evaluation of watchtower publications and doctrine, particularly the newest material i can get my hands on.

but i felt it was time to talk again.

i hope at least some of you will be gentle.. i'm married now.

FuzzyPaul

We are free, free, free at last. We are going to a Southern Baptist Church and this is the best thing in my life after those 45 of 50 years in the WTBTS dungeon. So good you will walk with a dance and smile. Try it, you WILL like Christendom - What is wrong with being in the Domain of Christ anyway and why don't they want to be?

Babylon the Great is the same women who went into the wilderness two thousand years after. The Jews run the banks, big business war factories, Wall Street, Hollywood, recording studios, the gold and diamond trade and those same Illuminatti started the Watchtower with Russell. "Russell" is one of the Illuminatti blood-lines. He was above the Free Masons he lectured to offering "The Free-Masonry of the Bible" to them.

Get out of Egyptian bondage, their symbols at Russell's grave, the Queens Assembly Hall are Egyptian masonic.

Me, my wife, son, step-daughter and her daughter and the next younger step-daughter have all left the dark night of a Kingdom Hall for fresh BIBLE study, dinners, friends, quartet club, love and fellowship. They didn't represent what I found very accurately at all. This is great.

And I was baptized in "The name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit" NOT to be known as one of Jehovah's Witnesses or any other brand name of Church. They never say those words like Jesus asked do they? For 30 years I felt like I was stolen.

The only demons I sense are still in the Kingdom Hall attendees - not in my church.

Love,

Paul

30

Genesis 1:2 "God's active force" and equivalents

by Spike Tassel in

and a mightywind that swept over the surface of the waters [the new english bible].

and the spiritof god hovered over the surface of the water [the revised english bible].

and the spiritof god moved upon [was brooding upon] the face of the waters [american standard version (asv), the modern reader's bible, the webster bible].

FuzzyPaul

From the paper on the study of The Holy Spirit called "pneumatology" by:

Michel Rene Barnes

Veni Creator Spiritus

Dedicated to the work of Frank McCloin

" the LXX rendering of Isaiah 63:9 says

"…not an ambassador, nor an angel, but he himself saved them…." "

He himself" is God, and the text is emphatic that God saved Israel directly. The MT, however, says:

"In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them"

The MT version of Isaiah 63:9 is widely regarded by contemporary scholars as a key expression of Jewish angelomorphic pneumatology, and I will not here belabor the significance of the MT Hebrew text in this case."

...

"The Spirit Creator

The Jewish Doctrine of the Spirit Creator

The first reference to the "Spirit of God" appears in the second line of the first book of the Bible. We remember these first few words, sometimes only vaguely, but they are worth saying again here.

(1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (2) The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters. (3) And God said, "Let there be light." And there was light.

If one reads this passage with the question of sources or original literary units in mind, then Genesis 1:1-2 has the appearance of having previously "stood alone" without being part of the "And God said" literary tradition that begins at Gen. 1:3. If, on the other hand, one reads this passage from the perspective of the literary unit Genesis 1, then what is striking is that "Spirit of God" does not appear again in the creation account in the first chapter of Genesis"

...

" The second example of a Spirit-creator text is found in Job: "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life." (Job 33:4) The passage may be seen as a condensed reference to the creation tradition expressed at Genesis 1:2b and Genesis 2:7.20 Clearer echoes of these Genesis spirit expressions can be found in two other pasages in Job 26:4: "With whom have you sent your words? Whose breath-of-life has come forth from you? "

which echoes the description of Genesis 1:1-2b and 2:7. The final Job passage is 27:3, "…as long as my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils," which again echoes the description of Genesis 2: 7.

There are two psalms from First Temple Judaism that seem to associate the Spirit of God with creating: Ps. 33 and Ps. 104.

By the Word of the Lord the heavens were spread out, And by the Spirit of His mouth all their power. (Ps. 33:6)

When thou sendest forth thy Spirit, they are created; and thou renewest the face of the ground. (Ps. 104:30) " ...

Found at :

http://www.mu.edu/maqom/spiritus.pdf .

Jesus said to Nicodemus:

"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Literally it reads:

(From the Kingdom Interlinear)

The - spirit - where - it is willing - is blowing, - and - the - sound - of it - you are hearing, - but - not - you have known - wherefrom - it is coming - and - where - it is going under; - thus - is - everyone - the - having been generated - out of - the - spirit.

Or the wind blows “where it wants to”?

Thus I think that the absolute inability of man to understand the nature of GOD limits us. This is the nature of a mysticism, it draws us in despite a readable surface meaning, one gets enticed to understand a veiled truth by testing all possible notions. We are not reading a newspaper, it is The Words of God.

Belief in the word of God is at the heart of salvation and the Watchtower was started to “prove the Freemasonry of the Bible” ( Charles Russell said that ) not to restore Biblical truth. The Triune God concept is closer to truth than any WT idea, all of Christendom's doctrines are I found.

Jesus prayer in John 17:20, 21

"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.”

Regards, Fuzzy

Hope this can be read now.

30

Genesis 1:2 "God's active force" and equivalents

by Spike Tassel in

and a mightywind that swept over the surface of the waters [the new english bible].

and the spiritof god hovered over the surface of the water [the revised english bible].

and the spiritof god moved upon [was brooding upon] the face of the waters [american standard version (asv), the modern reader's bible, the webster bible].

FuzzyPaul

I posted a late comment on this thread in which I contradict the hypothesis of Renai. I believe Jesus is fully qualified to be called "God". Jesus has a God and Father but is still god as well. The WT uses a very narrow version of The Trinity to contradict.

There are three separate persons all of whom occupy the same office by the will of The First Cause. The Father is called "creater", Jesus is the director of creation, and the Holy Spirit is the agent of creation. NO other individual or group in scripture has that unique ability or relationship. The three persons of the Triune God are interchangeable in scripture. Notice the persons of God referenced in the NT in passages on baptism. NO other persons in scripture get any level of authority nearing theirs - yet they all do of each other. Evidence of a heirarchy in the triune God concept does not deny their being in the office of God.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/167153/23/jesus-denies-being-God-scriptural-discussion

In that thread note how early on a person quotes the Catechism of The Catholic Church. Its not what the WT leads one to think is thought.

Read my post, Fuzzy

30

Genesis 1:2 "God's active force" and equivalents

by Spike Tassel in

and a mightywind that swept over the surface of the waters [the new english bible].

and the spiritof god hovered over the surface of the water [the revised english bible].

and the spiritof god moved upon [was brooding upon] the face of the waters [american standard version (asv), the modern reader's bible, the webster bible].

FuzzyPaul

Can I fix my post somehow to get the font to be readable?

Regards,Fuzzy

30

Genesis 1:2 "God's active force" and equivalents

by Spike Tassel in

and a mightywind that swept over the surface of the waters [the new english bible].

and the spiritof god hovered over the surface of the water [the revised english bible].

and the spiritof god moved upon [was brooding upon] the face of the waters [american standard version (asv), the modern reader's bible, the webster bible].

FuzzyPaul

Sorry about the font and its size. I must have used too many "clip and paste" operations.

Regards, Fuzzy