Posts by OnTheWayOut

posted

75
Having Faith in the Bible
by william draper in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
i know many on here have lost faith in the bible , is it possible that is because ones do not have the right perspective regarding it .

we have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant .

i believe if we take an honest look at the bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters , it gives us some amount of bearings ( understanding ) , which without having such knowledge we would all be more like walking zombies in amanner of speaking , we would be lacking hope in something better , for surely something better is to come , how can we be sure , .
OnTheWayOut

Some, like myself, have not "lost faith in the Bible," but have grown beyond faith in the Bible.
I think that belief that the Bible "gives us the best answers to crucial matters" is ignoring it's answers as far as women, slavery, exclusionism, etc.
If a man rapes a woman, pay 50 sheckels to her father and marry her.
The husband is to rule over his wife. Man was not created for woman but woman for man.
A man who refuses to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law is put to death.

I could go on and on.
If we followed the letter of the Bible, then we really would be closer to your "walking zombies in a manner of speaking."
You could sell your daughter into permanent slavery to pay a debt.
You could beat your slave severely, as long as he doesn't die that very day, but the next day is okay.
If you can't find a wife, you could take the virgin daughter of your enemy in battle that you just killed and shave her head and imprison her for life, but call her your wife.
Is there any other book that gives us a better understanding of where we came from , and what may be / is to be our future .
I won't bother with that except to say that man is much older than 6 or 7 thousand years old and that real progress with our future comes from excepting real science about how it all started. Otherwise, we could remain ignorant and not bother to understand our universe because "God" will tell us what we need. So don't bother to cure disease or invent better products for mankind.
91
Setback
by EdenOne in
1. jw
2. experiences
i saw this coming since my mother-in-law's funeral .... the congregation's "love-bombing" over my wife had its impact.

i watched her drawing closer and closer to her friends in the congregation.

then she decided she would attend the memorial.
OnTheWayOut

Sorry to read your woes.
She said it won't happen again, but given what the cult mentallity does to people, I'm not so sure I can trust her.
Watch your back. I don't have kids, my wife and I are otherwise in a similar position. I trust her, but don't tell her all I do because she might one day feel compelled to report it. The other day, we were talking about our recent Mayoral election and she asked, "Did you vote?" I said "No, if I vote, someone will tell my mother to never speak to me again." Her reply was, "You don't have to tell anyone that you voted." "Yeah, but YOU just asked. Should I lie to you or say it's none of your business?" Her reply was "I guess I did ask. You will have to say 'None of my business.'"
Hopefully, your wife will one day tire of the life she returned to.
9
ATL Teachers Sentenced to Prison in Cheating Scandal: Can the same charges be used against leaders of the WTBTS?
by Wild_Thing in
1. social
2. current
first of all, i stand in support of the teachers ... sort of.

this system of over testing in america, connecting test scores to monetary rewards or punishments, and threatening teachers with their job over test scores is directly to blame for the environment created where teachers and administrators felt pressure to cheat.

but at the same time, they lost their integrity and cheated.
OnTheWayOut

I followed with interest at one time. I get that there was huge pressure upon the teachers. I also disagree with criminal jail time.
So, yes. I can say that many at Watchtower are cheating. There is pressure on them to misuse quotes and data and to manipulate the members into giving more money. I would also lump these people in with the teachers, caving in to pressure, and disagree with jail time. But as I would expect "Banned from Teaching" for the one group, I would expect "Banned from Preaching/Recruiting" for the other.
48
How many here gave up having a family for the sake of the "truth"?
by stuckinarut2 in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
this is a sensitive topic for many of us i know, but i am wondering how many here actually gave up the idea of having a family "in this system" for the sake of "kingdom activity or service"??.

start the count here with my wife and i.
OnTheWayOut

ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!!!!!
My wife and I decided it was far too late in this system of things to be having kids. She got a bit rocky in her decision just after I faded. By then, I knew there was no way we would raise a child together with our differences about "the truth." I told her we had decided not to have children and we are going to stay with that.
It's far enough past that now and I don't need to worry.
9
New Avatar
by mrquik in
1. jw
2. friends
i can't help but think how many committee meetings this photo would have generated.

this is on the caribbean side of cozumel at a quaint bar called mezcalito's.

this side of the island is virtually deserted.
OnTheWayOut

MISTER QUIK, I don't think the ladies are admiring TATTOOS. They probably notice the well-defined man.
24
Conn. Firefighter Who Is Jehovah's Witness Files Federal Discrimination Lawsuit
by Bangalore in
1. jw
2. friends
conn. firefighter who is jehovah's witness files federal discrimination lawsuit.

http://www.ctlawtribune.com/id=1202722980377/conn-firefighter-who-is-jehovahs-witness-files-federal-discrimination-lawsuit#ixzz3xhkbpznt.
OnTheWayOut

I hate to side with a JW but an individual firefighter doesn't need to be involved in raising or lowering the flag at the station. He can go clean toilets or windows or tools while someone else gets that part done. It's really that simple.
Some smaller municipalities will insist that a member participate in parades, afterall- if they all had a choice, they probably would not have anyone in the parade. It could be mandatory to march but not to participate in any other way. A court may rule that religious objection is a good enough reason to sit it out, so such a person could be left to monitor radios or the station house or something essential while others are marching.
45
Hold Me, Thrill Me
by Hold Me-Thrill Me in
1. jw
2. friends
i'm going to be honest and from the heart when i say that for 40 years in the jw religion i was very happy in my ignorance!

man, what a trip it was.

i loved every minute of it but then i was absent the bad in my religion.
OnTheWayOut

Greetings to you, HMTM. People are free to do as they see fit, including going to Jehovah's Witnesses even when they know it's not the absolute truth that it says it is. And I am certainly not one to advocate other churches, but non-trinitarians, according to Wiki include: Modern nontrinitarian Christian groups or denominations include Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Dawn Bible Students, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God International and the United Church of God.
I think you might serve yourself to read the Steve Hassan books that Flipper mentioned. Also, consider what kind of reception you would get from Jehovah's Witness members in the congregation if they heard some of your radical thinking (radical to them) against the teachings or the Governing Body. While I cannot recommend other churches, there are some on that list that allow you to think/speak/feel as you like. Also, Buddhism and Taoism allow you to do the same.
If you want "Jesus," you can't really follow Buddha, but you could go to the way Buddhism was meant to be and still is when advocates follow their own private path of enlightenment. They really were not supposed to follow anyone, but to become their own Buddha. In other words, you can meditate and apply any part of your Jesus belief to your life without some organized religion to visit on weekends.
I can't quite claim the title of "Non-Christian, Non-Buddhist, Atheist Zen" but that's pretty close.
Here's some commonalities between Jesus and Buddha:
Be humble
Be compassionate (a possible translation of sympathy through mourning)
Live simply (a possible translation of meek)
Be ethical (a possible translation of righteous)
Be merciful
Be pure of heart
Be a peacemaker
Do not live in fear to do what is right
Be an example to others (“the light of the world”)
Do not murder (the Buddhist First Precept)
Do not commit adultery (The Buddhist Third Precept)
Sin is not only found in action but in intention (the Buddhist concept of volitional action creating karma)
Keep your promises (The Buddhist Fourth Precept)
Turn the other cheek (The Buddhist concept of compassion or karuna)
Do charity because it is in your heart to do so (the concept of dana)
Do not judge ( The Buddhist concept of the three poisons: hatred, greed and delusion)
Always be seeking and questioning ( “seek and you will find .. “)
Beware of false prophets and judge them by the fruit they bare (the sutta of the Kalamas)

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

It really is the same-old same-old arguments. Christians insist on personal anecdotes as evidence for their God and they, along with others, insist on hardcore evidence from nonbelievers that God doesn't exist. This is because they know such evidence couldn't possibly exist.

There is at least an equal amount of anecdotal evidence that the god of Christianity doesn't exist as there are personal anecdotes that "He" does exist - the inaction in many circumstances and allowing of evil upon his worshippers. And believers know good and well that fantastical stories about Superman, Santa Claus, other gods, etc. allow them to dismiss belief without the same type of evidence they demand from nonbelievers in their fantastical God.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

OnTheWayOut

"Belief" or "believing in" someone or something is just as the opening post said. Also, "faith/faith-in". And it varies a bit from person to person. Having been on the other side of "belief in God," I get that many will continue to have belief. I might debate on the forum, but I really know that people are on their own journey and I won't browbeat those that don't insist on their beliefs being put upon others.

But as former JW's, we need to understand the passion of those who are sure they are right. I have occasionally not reminded myself of that and I will try harder.

Certainly, belief in some kind of creator is vastly different than the fire-and-brimstone preaching of hard core Christians or Muslims. Most "believers" are closing the gaps on the god-of-the-gaps and accepting what science offers, but just not letting go of an intelligence behind it all. I admire their optimism.

Being in a cult - what good did it do?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

so, here's a bit of a different point of view.

while most of us will agree that our time within the jw cult was rather terrible, however, i'd like to look at another aspect.

did anything good come out of being in a cult and then waking up from it?.

OnTheWayOut

I never look at things the way the opening post asks.
Example: The World Trade Center buildings came crashing down on Sept. 11, 2001, but a NYC firefighter/paramedic dragged a victim out and had to stay with the victim all the way to the emergency room. That same firefighter/paramedic met a nurse that day and they fell in love and married and have a ten and an eight year old child today.
I don't see that as a reason to say "It wasn't all bad." I could also have put my example in the Nazi prison camps.

Any good that came of it was "IN SPITE OF IT," not credited to the cult. The price overall for any good was too high.