Posts by OnTheWayOut

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

OnTheWayOut

How is it any more ridiculous than, something made people out of dust and kills them for eating fruit. Gets pissed off at snakes and takes away their legs, floods the whole world and sends his son on a kamikaze mission to calm himself down, and then expect us to kiss his murderous ass?

Yeah, the thing is- even if you want to believe in a god who started it all, arriving at the total crap of the Bible with the Garden and the flood and the exodus and the guy nailed to a cross, is such a huge leap. You can't justify the second one just because you insist on the first one.

The universe did NOT have a creation event, it always existed. The
Big Bang was always there and this started the universe.
Time, without it nothing must have always existed, it can not have a
beginning because either would create a moment in time. Without
time it would be meaningless to ask its existence and that of the universe.
When the universe was created it was simply there all the time, existing
in the same way as nothing, as it always has.

Yes, but that is a little advanced for the likes of Perry because it isn't written in the Bible.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

OnTheWayOut

I love you, Perry. Truly. And I always see you jumping in here and then not responding very much to valid counterpoints. And it has become crystal clear to me that you are truly hoping that some of us atheists can talk some sense into you, can shake you hard enough to snap you out of your Jesus beliefs.

I guess you just can't walk away on your own. In many ways, you are stuck in your own dangerous mind-control beliefs. I don't know what religious group is feeding your mind. I think it is mostly coming from your own mind and I doubt you are in a dangerous group like Westboro Baptists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDdiCYTK160

28

Are J.W's obsesed with their statis??

by karter in

jw
friends

i went to a j.w funeral and saw some people i used to hang out with many years ago and they all seemed to want to tell me if they or any member of their family were elders,m.s's,pioneers ect.. karter..

OnTheWayOut

I moved 1000 miles to relocate and had to make my final move 6 months after the first one to where I finally settled. My new congregation had the letter of introduction and the body of elders knew I was an elder 6 months prior. Status meant nothing to me, so I generally never went around saying "Hey, I was an elder."

So this Sunday speaker, who didn't know anyone in the congregation, comes down from the platform after the final prayer and starts his round of handshakes. I was sitting near the front and he gets to me and I say the typical hello with my name. He goes right to "Are you one of the elders?" "No." "Are you a servant?" "Um, no." No big deal to me, and if he asked, I would have explained how I moved recently, but it came off as if that was so important to him. He goes on, "Well, brother. You work on that and I am sure you can reach out blah blah blah....Can you point me to one of the elders?" I pointed and he was gone.

It's everything to many pioneers and elders and others. It's sickening.

19

Did Ray Franz ever address his thoughts on atheism?

by JWINQUESTION in

does anybody know if ray franz ever addressed his thoughts on atheism?

from what i've read, he was a diligent reader of the bible.

if anybody has any info and sources about this, it is highly appreciated.

OnTheWayOut

I haven't found any thoughts on atheism nor recall reading any from Ray Franz. But Ray was not trying to establish a following. He wrote a couple books that had his thoughts that needed to get out. It would seem he remained very Christian. But he didn't preach anything when he left. He turned his energy toward his crisis of conscience and did an excellent job.

On a similar vein, Ray Franz helped many people start down a new path, which consisted of thinking and examining the Watchtower for themselves. While I won't directly say that Ray caused people to lose faith in Watchtower and come to the conclusion that religion or even belief in God was not necessary, Ray was an important part of many people's spiritual journey that took them to atheism or somewhere else.

34

A Taxi Driver Gave Me 4 Magazines This Morning

by Tempest in a Teacup in

jw
friends

as we had reached my destination, i paid him and was getting down when he handed me something.

then i saw it was the wt and awake.

i just had the time to say: "oh, okay, thank you!

OnTheWayOut

I would negative witness to him.
"Why are you giving me these?"
[Something to read, I'm on a mission from God, whatever]
"Well, you could have preached to me on the way. Give me my tip back (if already in his hand). If you are just counting time and weren't ready to actually discuss your subject with me, you don't get a tip for your field service."

8

Legally can WT forcibly remove money from KH bank accounts with out the signees permission

by joe134cd in

i just wondered if the wtbts could legally remove the money from the congregation accounts with out the signees permission.

are the bank accounts deemed society property with the change of realestate ownership into the societies name.

legally could they get away with it if the situation arose , and if not how could they manipulate the situation so they could.

OnTheWayOut

Once something like Menlo Park or Bonham, TX (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/197640/real-story-on-why-watchtower-society-lost-kingdom-hall-bonham-texas?page=1) happens, Watchtower changes some things. Those were so rare anyway. Most all of the members of a particular group are going to stay with Watchtower and override some "crazy independent elders."

I hope some radical things can happen that prove that wrong. I really do. Some scandal in high places maybe.

But "they" appoint the leaders locally and organizationally. It would be hard to get a majority of the elders to do something against them most anywhere. It is possible that it is brewing right now, though. There may have been some holdout congregation that kept it's money from Watchtower and haven't been found out yet. But keep in mind that Watchtower sends the C.O. who goes over the books and money is the most important one to cover. They can't hide it, so that congregation, if it exists, is defying openly or embezzling. It would be fun to see it.

8

Legally can WT forcibly remove money from KH bank accounts with out the signees permission

by joe134cd in

i just wondered if the wtbts could legally remove the money from the congregation accounts with out the signees permission.

are the bank accounts deemed society property with the change of realestate ownership into the societies name.

legally could they get away with it if the situation arose , and if not how could they manipulate the situation so they could.

OnTheWayOut

Under most arrangements established before they wanted ALL the money, NO. They could not just take the money legally. But it's one big trusting family. It's for the trusted leaders to do the best with it. Plus, the local kiss-asses could be removed or demoted if they don't go along, then some new kiss-ass would send the money.

32

Would you call JW HQ???

by DATA-DOG in

i have a friend who is still in.

this friend is a partaker, but has serious doubts about the org.

this friend wants to stand up as a man, and wants to call wtbts hq.

OnTheWayOut

Seriously, when the receptionist doesn't patch him through, then what?

Will he see that the anointed are not all one big happy family? There's a youtube of John Cedars calling a GB member directly (tight pants Tony). If there were a chance of some random calling, I am sure that recent call ruined that for him.

19

Having a hard time holding my tongue...

by problemaddict 2 in

jw
friends

...recently.. i'm normally pretty calculated.

my fade is done, my wife is out, my family and friends know, i maintain quite abit of the friendships of those closest to me jw or not, my family isn't shunning, and the few people we have kept it from for other reasons we are calculating how to break it.

(elderly matriarch that we are simply not going to tell so she doesn't die).. but.....all these facebook meme's and stupid feeds about reliance on jehovah, distraction, staying close to his organization, persevering against satan.....its driving me nuts.

OnTheWayOut

The problem is Facebook. It leads to divorce and to young people posting things that will haunt them in college or their career. I am on facebook but I am cautious. Despite that caution, it may not be enough to blow my cover. If you have a problem, just walk away from it. You can keep your regular account to keep in touch and share photos, but if the meme's and jokes, serious cultish stuff bothers you, either ignore it and walk away or get a second account anonymously and address those things anonymously.

I choose to be fairly open on facebook, but don't allow any JW's as friends. There's still a back door that friends of friends could be JW's, so I have to watch out. I don't post personal info. and I comment on the woes of other ex-JW's whose friends wouldn't know me. Other than that, I wouldn't be able to post about it at all.

99

Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

by willmarite in

on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

OnTheWayOut

Rather than assume people want the same thing you want, you could always ask them.

I think the Golden Rule doesn't omit this. I would want someone to ask me how I would like to be treated instead of just assuming. This is in line with the Golden rule.

Flag Dislike LikeI have to go with that. The Golden Rule is short and simple, but allows for "Assume you don't want what they want and ask what they want." It's not garbage, it's just not completely everything in all situations. It's a great place to start when you need a place to start.