Posts by OnTheWayOut

57

40 years on - and still in Damage Control mode!

by Bungi Bill in

earlier this morning, i posted off to the the institute of engineers an application for membership as an "engineering associate":.

- today being just over 40 years since the congregation's retards elders made me abandon my apprenticeship.. (in this part of the world, the pre-1975 hype was taken to that level.

not being content to prevent young persons attending university, they went one step further and treated with hostility any youngster who would "tie up five years of their lives" by entering into an apprenticeship.

OnTheWayOut

A wish of continued good luck in your endeavors. Congratulations on the diploma.

71

A big hello and thank you

by iwasblind in

i just wanted to introduce myself and say a big hello to all of my mentally diseased friends.. i say friends because i have been lurking for some time so it feels like home (us lurkers are a bit scared and cautious so it takes a while).

i won't bore you with too many details, but i am a born in, currently serving as the cobe of a congregation.

my wife and i have pioneered for the last 10 years and were shaken awake by that ridiculous 15th july 2013 wt about the generation and 1914.. my wife who is much smarter than me has questioned for years.

OnTheWayOut

Welcome to the forum. Welcome to the rest of your life. Please get outta there and enjoy it.

22

Introducing myself

by Bill Covert in

it was suggested that i do a post of introducing myself rather than just starting to do posting.

i am one of those viet nam war felons who had to refuse community service in lieu of military induction per direct instructions of wbts.

my mother was from a old time jw family in the calif. bay area the "garigs".

OnTheWayOut

Planning on going to Flippers Apostate Fest and meeting some of you folks

Awesome. See ya there.

Thanks for your honest story here.

28

Today my son told me that he can't stand this religion

by hardtobeme in

jw
friends

i have talked to him ttat.

and he understands.

he doesn't wanna be a jw.

OnTheWayOut

Regarding education, my wife and I agree that they need to go to college. I told her that I have wasted a lot of years cause Armageddon was just around the corner since 1992 when the old generation was supposed to pass in 1995.

Wrong. That's just for you. Actually, Armageddon has been around the corner much much longer. But I get what you mean.

I want to give the hard answers here. If I had a young young son and daughter (I missed your daughter's age and current situation), I would probably DA myself to make sure they were raised free to share everything at school and be "normal." If I had a son and daughter not quite so young when I figured out that JW's are not "the truth," many factors would depend on them. I would want them to feel free to participate in normal activities, go to parties, go on dates as a teenager, play sports or be in the orchestra (or both), YADDA YADDA YADDA. I would ask them to do normal things and not brag to the JW's about it.

If my kids could keep it quiet that they know "it's not the truth," then for the sake of Mom or Grandma or whoever, I would try to ask them to do their homework at the Kingdom Hall and stop being "publishers" and just keep quiet until Dad figures out how to remove the family from the Kingdom Hall. (A matter of months to a year, not indefinitely.) Really, I would go that far. They should not be expected to carry a lie so far as to do the recruiting and giving talks at the hall. I know that would mean Dad would lose privileges. SO FRIGGIN' WHAT? It's their lives and happiness I am talking about. Besides, I would start missing meetings and skipping JW stuff and begin to disappear from the active JW scene. So privileges would be a burden anyway.

If my kids could just play the weak JW kids card okay, that's what I would do.

If they can't keep quiet, then I would still DA for their sake, same as with the young young kids. Either way, I would let my kids know that I unconditionally love them and want what's best for them.

40

What is the truth?

by hardtobeme in

jw
friends

that is what my professor of philosophy asked us last night at class.. he said that pontius pilate asked jesus that question and that it was a hard one that jesus couldn't answer.. what do you think about this question?

what is the truth?

does the gb has any truth?

OnTheWayOut

Jehovah’s Witnesses use this phrase, “the truth,” constantly. Since it is an established fact in their minds, anything new said from the platform or printed by the Watchtower Organization is accepted as the truth. There is no room for doubt. The average Witness doesn’t even try to think and interpret the scriptures for himself or consider where he stands on issues, but relies totally upon the Watchtower organization to do that for him.

What is the Truth? If asked, “What is the truth?” Jehovah’s Witnesses will answer most likely like this: “The truth is that which is firm, trustworthy, stable, faithful, and established as fact.” Fair enough but they will go on to say “Jehovah God is truth, in that His judicial decisions, law, commandments, and word are truth. He cannot lie according to Titus 1:2.”

Seeking an answer elsewhere, Webster defines “truth” as:
(1) being true; specif., a) sincerity; honesty b) conformity with fact c) reality; actual existence d) correctness; accuracy
(2) that which is true
(3) an established fact.

Wikipedia says “ there is no single definition of truth about which the majority of philosophers agree.”

In John chapter 18, Jesus told Pontius Pilate that he came into the world to “bear witness to the truth,” but when Pilate asked, “What is truth?” there was no answer from Jesus. There are various opinions on how to define and identify truth. Even with Webster telling us that truth is “that which is true,” I could make a statement and say that it is a true statement, but that just leads to questions such as these; What is a true statement? Is it different from a statement made truthfully? Such highly abstract discussions will get us nowhere.

Some feel that truth is subjective and personal, that one man’s truth comes from his inner feelings and thinking, his viewpoint. Many add that truth is relative, only defined by its comparison to something else. This would be similar to the abstract question, “What is beauty?” In subjective truth, different persons would have different truths.

Outside of philosophy, truth is not generally thought of in subjective terms. Truth is determined by existing realities, based on facts independent of the mind. Most people think that truth is objective. Some go so far as to say that only absolute truth matters. "Absolute truth" is defined as inflexible reality: fixed, invariable, unalterable facts. Absolute truth requires an absolute standard. Even here, we can run into trouble. If I make the objective statement that “Earth is the third planet out from the sun,” another person could ask, “Whose definition of ‘planet’ are you using?” “Is it possible that there are other undiscovered planets between the earth and sun?” “When you say ‘out from the sun,’ do you mean in distance or a straight line?” With religious doctrine, it is no different. Whose translation are we using, and which ancient Greek or Hebrew meaning are we applying? The Watchtower claims that our perspective on truth should come from the absolute authority of the creator of all things. They teach that the creator determines what is right and what is wrong, and that the absolute truth we seek is knowledge of His will for His creation. This is “the truth” that, unlike beauty, does not lie in the eye of the beholder. It’s just a shame that we need humans to interpret what that absolute truth is, and to tell us what they think God’s will is for us.

To discuss the question, “What is the truth” is endless in philosophy and debate, but it is not so difficult to discuss and dismiss the claim of absolute truth from Jehovah’s Witnesses. One simply has to demonstrate that what they say is false or not absolute. I say that is easy to do, but that each person must do this for themselves.

The average Witness at your door, or in your family or congregation is not intentionally lying. He is telling you the truth and nothing but the truth, as far as he understands. That is why he can be so convincing. The untruths are coming from the organization, passed on as truths, often with both mixed together with added moral judgment values, to make them indistinguishable from each other. Their moral judgement values are subjective and Watchtower typically claims they are from God and absolute in value. I contend that you are not getting the whole truth from the Watchtower organization in virtually every case. If you see the whole truth, it will cause you to reexamine what has been told to you, and you will clearly be able to see that it is not “the truth” in an objective absolute sort of way. Once you discover that it is not the truth, you will be able to see how it is the anti-truth, a mix of misleading truths and omissions of complete facts that enables the Watchtower organization to control the lives of millions.

41

How Do You Feel About All The Time You Wasted Being. A Jehovah's Witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

all that i can say is....what a shame!

OnTheWayOut

Although I was exposed to the JW's by my mother as a child, I didn't join until I was an adult. At the time I joined, I was in at a low point in my life and in need of serious help for some psychological issues. But the well-meaning soldiers of Watchtower assured me that the distress in my life was caused by Satan and his world and all I needed was "the truth." I actually had thought, before meeting with JW's, that God had saved me from taking my own life and was guiding my life. Rather than tell me "You need help," the JW elder that started a study with me convinced me that God does just what I thought He was doing and that "He" must have led me to "the truth."

With that background, I can answer your question, "How do I feel about the time I wasted being a Jehovah's Witness?"

20 years after I should have gotten help, I got help. I put a band-aid on a serious problem for 20 frigging years. Watchtower even discouraged the type of counseling I should have gotten. I absolutely hate this dangerous mind-control cult for wasting all that time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited to add:

minimus I do think that even if we felt like we wasted our time, there's still time left to salvage and enjoy life, right now.

I have to agree. My true personality shown through during my 20-year delay and it wasn't all misery. And now that I got away from Watchtower, I embrace the big and small joys in life. I totally enjoy sharing time and energy and thoughts with others who have their own JW-stories. That's why I spend too much time on this forum and why I meet up with other ex-JW's on a regular basis.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

OnTheWayOut

I have no idea what you are saying, and I explained the difference. The likes of Perry are stuck in a similar situation to those of our former past- rigid thinking of how they must be correct and that is some path to salvation. Many who have escaped that thinking are willing to learn and, just as they had to adjust to Watchtower not having the truth, they are adapting as they discover more along their journey.

If you want to take this to some other level of debate about "what's the difference" and I don't know where you are going or what level we are talking about, I can't contribute to your lines here.

All I can say is that Perry wants to not "continuously weave concepts and beliefs into [his] identity" but wants to only find things that agree with his rigid concepts and beliefs that he has already woven. And I hope that there is still a Perry that wants us to break those rigid concepts.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

OnTheWayOut

OTWO, this was well said IMHO.

Even though I am not one of his fellow Christians, I love Perry and want to help him wake up.

Would you not agree that like Perry, all of us are continuously weaving concepts and beliefs into our identity right this moment?

Sure. But I hoped I covered the thought that many of us strive to be open and flexible as to our identity being related to our beliefs.

Can we clearly see how we allow our minds to create a seemingly “real” identity out of abstract thoughts, concepts, beliefs and occurrences? And if so, what sees this? What must remain outside the story to see the story? What are we really?

That's for each one to answer. I think therefore I am. Am I a bag of liquid and solids- yes. But who I am is tied to those abstract thoughts.

19

Crap Shoot

by John Aquila in

what would have happen if i was not home when jehovahs witnesses knocked on my door?.

there was a group of us living in a small trailer in the mid 60s when and old pioneer brother knocked on our door and placed all kinds of books and magazines with us.

all of us took it seriously and studied and started attending the kingdom hall.

OnTheWayOut

And here's one for you. If my JW wife ever does leave the religion, she wouldn't want to hear how I wish I never.... She'll say that we never would have met and I never would have gotten her out of the JW's.

So "What if..." can get a person in trouble if they dwell on it too much.

19

Crap Shoot

by John Aquila in

what would have happen if i was not home when jehovahs witnesses knocked on my door?.

there was a group of us living in a small trailer in the mid 60s when and old pioneer brother knocked on our door and placed all kinds of books and magazines with us.

all of us took it seriously and studied and started attending the kingdom hall.

OnTheWayOut

Yours is a common theme of science fiction time travel- change the past and do you muck everything up or make it better? If someone kills Adolf Hitler's father before he meets Adolf Hitler's mother, then what?
Some believe that things even out. There was a Japanese factor to World War 2 and perhaps Germany would have found it's way to the axis side no matter whether Hitler took them there or not.

Perhaps, if you didn't answer that door that day, you would have been found another day.

Others (myself included) subscribe to radically different outcomes were it possible to change things. Although it is just philosophy and not mathematics, many serious scientists suggest that traveling back in time would not allow any change. They state that were someone to interfere with the past, then in all possibilities, they ALWAYS DID INTERFERE WITH THE PAST and nothing ever changed. They believe that any ability to tinker with time would eventually have been discovered and all of time would be unstable because of it and it would unravel to the point where none of our universe could exist anymore.

I know that's not really where you are going. But I feel it is important to consider that "What if...." is not really something we can dwell on for any serious progress. It is just a curiosity and nothing more.