Posts by OnTheWayOut

16

They lie about everything, why don’t they lie about annual publisher growth?

by John Aquila in

jwfacts show that publisher growth was 15% pre- 1975 and has decline to about 2%.

what prevents them from fudging the annual growth and keeping it at something more positive like 10%?.

"a great crowd that no man is able to number".

OnTheWayOut

Lying about the numbers would take some corroboration. I think that GB members and the others who assist them with the writing of their articles are aware of problems, but don't directly think they are liars. It's kind of like a state government saying that "profits" from the lottery go to schools. Some of them do, some of them do. So it's not a lie to omit other places the money goes.

Watchtower leaders think that it is okay to mislead the members as long as there is "truth" within what they say. I think that they have manipulated numbers enough to make the "growth" of the last several years seem true in their minds. For some reason, they think that the USA should have growth so they have consolidated lands that used to be counted separately, they have allowed the 15-minute publishers, they have allowed both parents to count a study with their children so that even an inactive couple could claim some time.

They will probably cross the line of truth/lying sometime soon about this, but first they will have to either convince themselves that they are telling "truth" or that deliberate misleading without truth is necessary. If they have a couple of years of no-growth no matter how they manipulate the numbers, I see them flipping to counting people differently by using meeting attendance and phone-in numbers will be included, then they will start counting website hits somehow.

64

What triggered your doubts / awakening?

by Tornintwo in

i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

OnTheWayOut

I was never burned by a judicial committee or some major injustices. In 1995, it was the changed doctrine of "generation" that started me down the road of questioning WT, but I stayed another 11 years because that was just the start. I have a feeling that I would have found my way out no matter what.

I was a brand new elder in 1995 and this radical change was dealt with by seasoned elders with "they change things sometimes" and it was no big deal to them. To me, it meant the end wasn't necessarily so imminent. I realized that I needed a career instead of a job. I stopped being an obstacle to my wife wanting to go to college.

By 11 years later, I saw the injustice of rules that allowed elders to commit Watchtower-defined sins and get forgiveness while keeping their elder title. I saw how people were thrown under the bus to be examples to the congregation, and these ones seemed to be the ones with no elder connections. I had become an expert on looking things up on their CD-library and on the internet.

So one day, I simply told myself, "I google everything, why don't I google Jehovah's Witnesses and look at everything no matter what?" I had a feeling I would be surprised. Well, I had no previous knowledge about Ray Franz and his story fascinated me. I got a much clearer picture of what dangerous mind-control cults were and realized I was in one.

There's no magic method to free another person. If there were, I would have paid for it. Good luck.

29

"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i worked a different shift.

i knew the people i worked with, but not as well as i could have.. anyway, religion comes up.

one guy mentions in front of another that i wrote a book about my religious experience.

OnTheWayOut

Lisa Rose, he definitely has some problems. I hope he continues to believe in God or he might kill someone.

OneEyedJoe, good point. Even if he continues to believe in God, I will watch my back.

Village Idiot, that's pretty much what atheist life is like. WOW, I didn't know they animated a documentary of my life. Except for the part where it's just some churchgoer's thoughts (instead of reality), that video nails it.

Vidiot, you thought of it. Feel free to sell your reality idea.

32

I think the WT believed their own "growth" statements - Financial Trouble Thoughts

by thedepressedsoul in

we've all read, heard and have seen in the videos where jw's and their leaders talk about the "huge" growth that is taking place.

they've talked about how many kh they needed, branches etc... .

our co last visit he mentioned how quickly the organization is speeding up and the huge growth they are seeing.

OnTheWayOut

I totally agree with Morpheus. I also think that upper connected people (not necessary GB) are swinging funds to their family or buddies in land purchases, construction supplies, legal transactions, etc. on all this.

Money needs to be locked up in properties instead of liquid for reasons of lawsuits. But the new style for Kingdom Halls allows volunteers to pay for and build them and they will be easier to sell than the previous styles.

So let's review: WTS takes all the money, they look like they are spending it back into the membership, the membership continues to pay into the slush fund, buildings are ready to sell for at least no loss and probably a profit should the slush fund ever dry up in a particular area.

=======================================================

Edited to add:
Maybe they have even copied close enough, a style of small business that is popular enough to sell. Heck, maybe they even are in cahoots with some people ready to put small businesses in the exact same locations should buildings come available. Like HHGregg stores moved into closed Circuit City buildings.

86

Updated Chronological Timeline of the Great Tribulation -- after the New Light from July Watchtower

by FusionTheism in

the july 15, 2015 study watchtower article entitled "your deliverance is getting near", along with the jw broadcasting video entitled "gerrit losch: fortified by "the prophetic word," and chapter 21 of the god's kingdom rules!

book presented a large amount of new light or clarified understanding of the events of the great tribulation.. here i am presenting it in chronological order -- this is the governing body's updated chronological order of events for the time right before the great tribulation through armageddon:.

the final sealing of the anointed occurs just prior to the outbreak of the tribulation.

OnTheWayOut

The Final Sealing of the Anointed occurs just prior to the outbreak of the Tribulation. This Final Sealing is when the true Anointed on earth become "once saved, always saved." From this point on they cannot lose their salvation. In addition, the Anointed somehow know in their hearts when this Final Sealing takes place, therefore, they will know that the outbreak of the Tribulation is imminent.

This is just silly. By the time this takes place, 143,900 or more of these jokers should already be dead and in heaven, so what's to seal? It sounds more like a golden parachute for the cult leaders. "If anything we did comes into question, say we were already 'sealed' and shouldn't be questioned about it."

Now begins a short time of calm during the Great Tribulation. This period may last weeks, months, or perhaps even 4 years. Jehovah's Witnesses begin preaching the "Judgment Message" instead of the"Kingdom Good News." People who were formerly in Christendom or the other religious groups lie and hide the fact that they were ever religious. They claim they've always been atheists.

This sounds like a time factor for the leaders to pack their bags and transfer funds to their offshore accounts if the organization is falling apart.

22

The 1919 issue

by confused in

i am not a regular visitor to this site, every now and then then i get twisted up about something i come back lol.

i am sure this has been discussed many times so a link to another thread would be great or if someone has the patience to explain again please?

i have read the july 15 2013 wt many times but i simply don't understand the significance of 1919 from the bible.

OnTheWayOut

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1919-derived.php

This far out from bothering with their silly stuff, my head spins when I try to make sense of the general doctrine. From jwfacts, I sort of remember that 3.5 years (from Rev. 11:2,3) would pass from some point in 1914 where the temple was trampled for "42 months" and that meant that Christendom was sure it had defeated Watchtower. They fudge that 42 months to end it in June of 1918 when the Watchtower Board of Directors were arrested. But some time after this 42 months (apparently 9 months with no explanation of why it was that time period), Watchtower's Board of Directors was released from prison and that release indicates that Jesus chose these men as his faithful and discreet slave.

Regardless of how anyone tries to understand this, it is a play on 1914. They chose that year for Jesus invisible arrival (after changing it from 1874) and the things that Rutherford did some short years later had to be made to fit with their predictions. Rather than admit they were wrong, they piled on to their doctrine with even more specific details of how actual events were prophesied in Revelation.

Since there is so much fudging in that explanation, they apparently returned to it in 2013 and "simplified" it and seemed to ignore the fudging to simply say that, instead of 1918, Jesus started inspecting "and cleansing" the temple in 1914 to get us to 1919- HOW? I DON'T KNOW!

I think they actually expect people not to do the math so that they don't realize that starting at any point in 1914 and adding 3.5 years will never get you to any point in 1919. They were probably wrong and got letters pointing that out, so in the Nov. 15, 2014 WT, they added the 3.5 days (again, totally ambiguous length) back to the chart with the 3.5 years in order to arrive in 1919. Here's that explanation:

"How long did this inspection and cleansing take place. It extended from 1914 to the early part of 1919. This period of time includes both the 1,260 days (42 months) and the symbolic three and a half days referred to in Revelation chapter 11."Watchtower 2014 Nov 15 p.30

Trying to understand deeper than that is just a waste of my time. I will guess that all the specifics about the slave being arrested and vindicated was too much for people to remember and sounded weird, so they came out with a simple explanation that actually made no sense. Here's my paraphrase: Y'all know Jesus came in 1914 and chose the Watchtower as his spokespeople. Well, even though they were his chosen people, Jesus had to clean it up for a few years and then he appointed the Slave in 1919. Our doctrine is so steeped in these dates that we can't abandon them, so just learn to accept them.

10

"Watchtowers growth strains budgets"

by zebulon in

i live in orange county new york.

i posted once before a few weeks ago.

i am losing my family because of this org.

OnTheWayOut

Sorry to read your troubles, Zebulon.

It appears that, any short-term advantage to selling to Watchtower, winds up costing much more money for the local government. Granted, some of this property sat vacant, but once they gobble up hotels and apartment complexes and properties that were vacant, but would have eventually been filled with something, towns lose a tremendous tax base.

It's sad that a tax-exempt organization like Watchtower is not actually a non-profit religion that contributes to the local community in any measurable way except for selling the land then a slight boost in the local economy for tourists and traveling JW's.

29

"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i worked a different shift.

i knew the people i worked with, but not as well as i could have.. anyway, religion comes up.

one guy mentions in front of another that i wrote a book about my religious experience.

OnTheWayOut

Vidiot: Sometimes you just can't contain the crazy.

It's weird because he doesn't see it that way at all.

Mrs. Flip, yeah. I don't think it's a matter of knowing me. I think the problem is internal for this guy. But again, fine person to work with. I would just be careful about loaning him money to go into a business (or, for the ladies, marrying him).
DJS, I have hit like every now and again, but honestly do not notice the tally for any posters.
HMTM, thanks for your calm thought.

44

The JW religion has just cost me my marriage & my family life

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

after leaving the organisation 10 years ago i fought with everything i had to stay in my marriage and with my three children.

after a tumultuous number of years trying to maintain a happy family life while living in a divided home, it's finally over.

the religion is single handedly responsible for destroying my marriage and my family.

OnTheWayOut

I feel for you. So sorry to read this.

26

Watchtower Society now PROMOTES using Social Media / Networks?

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

have you seen this?.

http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/teenagers/whiteboard-animations/social-network-smart/#?insight.

OnTheWayOut

"If your parents allow you to have an account......"

WOW!!! That is radically different. I guess it's like this: More than 50% of adults and more than 96% of young ones don't listen to us anyway, so let's just pretend it was okay all along to be on social networks.

Also it sounds like a PSA, most of it is legit, sprinkled with jwism or scripture here and there, but mostly common sense about social networks.

Precisely.