Posts by OnTheWayOut

41

Help? :(

by BlackWolf in

i apologize for how rantish this is but please hear me out.

anyways i'm a 15 year old girl and i've never really wanted to be a jw.

its just never been something thats made me feel happy or loved.

Black Wolf, what with the lawsuit-happy world we live in, I can't really advise you on what to do as a 15-year old. I can tell you that when I was 16 and 17, I managed to do things my parents didn't know about. It wasn't preparing for art school, but it could have been were that what I wanted to do.

I know that life is terrible right now and that you think a few years is a long time. But really, you will be an adult soon. Were it me, I would be pretty open about how I don't care to be a JW, no matter how my parents react. I would not give talks in the school nor ring anyone's front doorbell. All they could do would be to drag me to the meetings and to the neighborhood for recruiting. Any punishment seems to be what they would do anyway, like keep me from other kids and the mall and stuff like that. I would probably be well-behaved and silent at meetings and JW stuff so that I wasn't being disrespectful. Then, I could say how they aren't winning me over with their punishments and maybe they would not make things worse. I would keep enjoying music and secretly learn what it would take for me to get into an art school, even if I couldn't really do it for several years (into my 20's).

Flipper mentions any non-JW relatives. Is it possible that at 18, you could go to them to help you on your way to college? If not, then you can still do it on your own. It'll just take a few more years.

Don't be obsessed with "now." It seems just a tiny while ago I was an active JW and now I am almost 10 years out.

8

Out of the Mouth of Babes - Bethel Gift shop?

by 4thgen in

jw
friends

about a week ago i posted to ask for some suggestions on how handle my (pre-teen) sons upcoming trip with his father trip to bethel this summer.

i got some wonderful suggestions.

some of which was to leave him alone, as he will see through the bullshxt himself.

OnTheWayOut

Spiritual AMNESTY -- Return to Jehovah

by FusionTheism in

basically, from what i can tell from the new return to jehovah brochure, is that the governing body is now offering amnesty to anyone who has been gone from the congregation but now wants to return.. it claims it doesn't matter what sins you've done, or what caused you to leave, if you repent to jehovah and ask the elders to help you, and return to the meetings, you'll be warmly welcomed with no disciplinary action or judgment against you..

OnTheWayOut

Suppose their amnesty offer is true. Or even in my case, there is no reason to hold a judicial committee. So what? So they invite people back to bonds of slavery?

No thanks. While ceasing the shunning would be great, not all kind acts from Watchtower lead to better.

I actually wish the recruiting work got harder, instead of this standing or sitting by a literature stand. And that meetings become more burdensome instead of shorter. I wish they would cracked the whip more and drive people out faster.

4

Jehovah's Witnesses Give Presents Their Own Way

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses give presents their own way.. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lara-ruffle-coles/jehovahs-witnesses-give-presents-their-own-way_b_7231380.html.

.

bangalore.

OnTheWayOut

All fine and good. In one former Jw''s experience, she did not feel cheated by their not celebrating. Three things: 1. The typical JW family does not do well making a difference to the kids with gifts at other times. 2. Many JW children are terrified of violating Jehovah''s rules at birthday and holiday celebrations. 3. JW children feel left out from the other children.

Even most non-Christian kids don't run away terrified from birthday cupcakes at school or feel like lightning will strike them if they accept a piece of candy connected to a holiday.

16

They lie about everything, why don’t they lie about annual publisher growth?

by John Aquila in

jwfacts show that publisher growth was 15% pre- 1975 and has decline to about 2%.

what prevents them from fudging the annual growth and keeping it at something more positive like 10%?.

"a great crowd that no man is able to number".

OnTheWayOut

Lying about the numbers would take some corroboration. I think that GB members and the others who assist them with the writing of their articles are aware of problems, but don't directly think they are liars. It's kind of like a state government saying that "profits" from the lottery go to schools. Some of them do, some of them do. So it's not a lie to omit other places the money goes.

Watchtower leaders think that it is okay to mislead the members as long as there is "truth" within what they say. I think that they have manipulated numbers enough to make the "growth" of the last several years seem true in their minds. For some reason, they think that the USA should have growth so they have consolidated lands that used to be counted separately, they have allowed the 15-minute publishers, they have allowed both parents to count a study with their children so that even an inactive couple could claim some time.

They will probably cross the line of truth/lying sometime soon about this, but first they will have to either convince themselves that they are telling "truth" or that deliberate misleading without truth is necessary. If they have a couple of years of no-growth no matter how they manipulate the numbers, I see them flipping to counting people differently by using meeting attendance and phone-in numbers will be included, then they will start counting website hits somehow.

64

What triggered your doubts / awakening?

by Tornintwo in

i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

OnTheWayOut

I was never burned by a judicial committee or some major injustices. In 1995, it was the changed doctrine of "generation" that started me down the road of questioning WT, but I stayed another 11 years because that was just the start. I have a feeling that I would have found my way out no matter what.

I was a brand new elder in 1995 and this radical change was dealt with by seasoned elders with "they change things sometimes" and it was no big deal to them. To me, it meant the end wasn't necessarily so imminent. I realized that I needed a career instead of a job. I stopped being an obstacle to my wife wanting to go to college.

By 11 years later, I saw the injustice of rules that allowed elders to commit Watchtower-defined sins and get forgiveness while keeping their elder title. I saw how people were thrown under the bus to be examples to the congregation, and these ones seemed to be the ones with no elder connections. I had become an expert on looking things up on their CD-library and on the internet.

So one day, I simply told myself, "I google everything, why don't I google Jehovah's Witnesses and look at everything no matter what?" I had a feeling I would be surprised. Well, I had no previous knowledge about Ray Franz and his story fascinated me. I got a much clearer picture of what dangerous mind-control cults were and realized I was in one.

There's no magic method to free another person. If there were, I would have paid for it. Good luck.

29

"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i worked a different shift.

i knew the people i worked with, but not as well as i could have.. anyway, religion comes up.

one guy mentions in front of another that i wrote a book about my religious experience.

OnTheWayOut

Lisa Rose, he definitely has some problems. I hope he continues to believe in God or he might kill someone.

OneEyedJoe, good point. Even if he continues to believe in God, I will watch my back.

Village Idiot, that's pretty much what atheist life is like. WOW, I didn't know they animated a documentary of my life. Except for the part where it's just some churchgoer's thoughts (instead of reality), that video nails it.

Vidiot, you thought of it. Feel free to sell your reality idea.

32

I think the WT believed their own "growth" statements - Financial Trouble Thoughts

by thedepressedsoul in

we've all read, heard and have seen in the videos where jw's and their leaders talk about the "huge" growth that is taking place.

they've talked about how many kh they needed, branches etc... .

our co last visit he mentioned how quickly the organization is speeding up and the huge growth they are seeing.

OnTheWayOut

I totally agree with Morpheus. I also think that upper connected people (not necessary GB) are swinging funds to their family or buddies in land purchases, construction supplies, legal transactions, etc. on all this.

Money needs to be locked up in properties instead of liquid for reasons of lawsuits. But the new style for Kingdom Halls allows volunteers to pay for and build them and they will be easier to sell than the previous styles.

So let's review: WTS takes all the money, they look like they are spending it back into the membership, the membership continues to pay into the slush fund, buildings are ready to sell for at least no loss and probably a profit should the slush fund ever dry up in a particular area.

=======================================================

Edited to add:
Maybe they have even copied close enough, a style of small business that is popular enough to sell. Heck, maybe they even are in cahoots with some people ready to put small businesses in the exact same locations should buildings come available. Like HHGregg stores moved into closed Circuit City buildings.

86

Updated Chronological Timeline of the Great Tribulation -- after the New Light from July Watchtower

by FusionTheism in

the july 15, 2015 study watchtower article entitled "your deliverance is getting near", along with the jw broadcasting video entitled "gerrit losch: fortified by "the prophetic word," and chapter 21 of the god's kingdom rules!

book presented a large amount of new light or clarified understanding of the events of the great tribulation.. here i am presenting it in chronological order -- this is the governing body's updated chronological order of events for the time right before the great tribulation through armageddon:.

the final sealing of the anointed occurs just prior to the outbreak of the tribulation.

OnTheWayOut

The Final Sealing of the Anointed occurs just prior to the outbreak of the Tribulation. This Final Sealing is when the true Anointed on earth become "once saved, always saved." From this point on they cannot lose their salvation. In addition, the Anointed somehow know in their hearts when this Final Sealing takes place, therefore, they will know that the outbreak of the Tribulation is imminent.

This is just silly. By the time this takes place, 143,900 or more of these jokers should already be dead and in heaven, so what's to seal? It sounds more like a golden parachute for the cult leaders. "If anything we did comes into question, say we were already 'sealed' and shouldn't be questioned about it."

Now begins a short time of calm during the Great Tribulation. This period may last weeks, months, or perhaps even 4 years. Jehovah's Witnesses begin preaching the "Judgment Message" instead of the"Kingdom Good News." People who were formerly in Christendom or the other religious groups lie and hide the fact that they were ever religious. They claim they've always been atheists.

This sounds like a time factor for the leaders to pack their bags and transfer funds to their offshore accounts if the organization is falling apart.

22

The 1919 issue

by confused in

i am not a regular visitor to this site, every now and then then i get twisted up about something i come back lol.

i am sure this has been discussed many times so a link to another thread would be great or if someone has the patience to explain again please?

i have read the july 15 2013 wt many times but i simply don't understand the significance of 1919 from the bible.

OnTheWayOut

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1919-derived.php

This far out from bothering with their silly stuff, my head spins when I try to make sense of the general doctrine. From jwfacts, I sort of remember that 3.5 years (from Rev. 11:2,3) would pass from some point in 1914 where the temple was trampled for "42 months" and that meant that Christendom was sure it had defeated Watchtower. They fudge that 42 months to end it in June of 1918 when the Watchtower Board of Directors were arrested. But some time after this 42 months (apparently 9 months with no explanation of why it was that time period), Watchtower's Board of Directors was released from prison and that release indicates that Jesus chose these men as his faithful and discreet slave.

Regardless of how anyone tries to understand this, it is a play on 1914. They chose that year for Jesus invisible arrival (after changing it from 1874) and the things that Rutherford did some short years later had to be made to fit with their predictions. Rather than admit they were wrong, they piled on to their doctrine with even more specific details of how actual events were prophesied in Revelation.

Since there is so much fudging in that explanation, they apparently returned to it in 2013 and "simplified" it and seemed to ignore the fudging to simply say that, instead of 1918, Jesus started inspecting "and cleansing" the temple in 1914 to get us to 1919- HOW? I DON'T KNOW!

I think they actually expect people not to do the math so that they don't realize that starting at any point in 1914 and adding 3.5 years will never get you to any point in 1919. They were probably wrong and got letters pointing that out, so in the Nov. 15, 2014 WT, they added the 3.5 days (again, totally ambiguous length) back to the chart with the 3.5 years in order to arrive in 1919. Here's that explanation:

"How long did this inspection and cleansing take place. It extended from 1914 to the early part of 1919. This period of time includes both the 1,260 days (42 months) and the symbolic three and a half days referred to in Revelation chapter 11."Watchtower 2014 Nov 15 p.30

Trying to understand deeper than that is just a waste of my time. I will guess that all the specifics about the slave being arrested and vindicated was too much for people to remember and sounded weird, so they came out with a simple explanation that actually made no sense. Here's my paraphrase: Y'all know Jesus came in 1914 and chose the Watchtower as his spokespeople. Well, even though they were his chosen people, Jesus had to clean it up for a few years and then he appointed the Slave in 1919. Our doctrine is so steeped in these dates that we can't abandon them, so just learn to accept them.