Posts by OnTheWayOut

39

Does What We Say Here Or In Person Really Help JWs To Get Out Of The Religion?

by minimus in

jw
friends

if we are in the congregation, do you think our comments or questions actually reach elders or others in the congregation?

do our comments on this board affect witnesses to the point of questioning their faith?

OnTheWayOut

I had wanted to start a thread like this one, but found that Min's thread was current. You all know how my greatest quality is humility, but I have to toot my own horn to make this point.

I mostly post on this forum for self-therapy. (Apparently, I still need quite a bit.) Recently, another fader said this to me in a text:
"Just wanted to remind you to keep it up! You're more help to more people than you realize."

That fader couldn't really know how "more people" are helped, but it indicated that I've helped make a difference in one person's life.

I wrote a book for my own therapy, and it greatly helped me. I self-published it on Amazon secretly (http://www.amazon.com/Fade-Truth-Learning-Unlearning-Witnesses/dp/147523001X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432912259&sr=1-1&keywords=Fade+from+the+truth ) because my JW wife was too highly upset by the idea of me actually putting such a book on the shelf in Barnes and Noble. The reason I put it on Amazon was to help even one person. I set the price as low as could be because it wasn't about money. I think I made $400 in the years it's been available.
Anyway, I have met more than one person who thanked me and said it made a difference to them.

If not for these people, I wouldn't have thought I was making a difference.

16

Rutherford, Knorr or Franz - Who has the most influence on doctrine & process now?

by konceptual99 in

so, i was thinking - who of the above still has the most influence on current wts doctrine and dogma?.

rutherford obviously created the smokescreen around 1914/607 but overall his work has been superseded i would suggest.. knorr created the various schools and they or their offspring still live on.

wasn't it during his tenure that all the blood doctrine, types/anti types (now chucked away of course), transplants etc came along?

OnTheWayOut

Rutherford turned Watchtower from a fringe belief to a serious business and used Fred Franz' strange writings, then Knorr fine-tuned the idea of "publishers" and was all about efficiency while he was using Fred Franz' strange writings. Fred Franz is virtually single-handedly responsible for keeping the "generation of 1914" alive for so long and including 1975 and "the 20th-Century." While there's nothing spectacular about Fred's presidency itself, it seems he was rewarded for his long years as the oracle with that title, and others saw the need to make a "Governing Body" and take away the all-encompassing power of the single leader. Also, Fred being there, further reward for his long years got Ray Franz onto the GB.

Ray is responsible for revealing more things about the GB than anyone else, responsible for more people waking up, and his situation is more of a reason why GB 1.0 turned further toward harshness and shunning.

Such a combination gets us to today's GB 2.0. So it's gotta be Fred who is most responsible for "process" now. And while his take on doctrines is pretty much dead now, GB 2.0 is having to deal with long-held Freddy writings in morphing WTS into something else. So Fred is still most responsible for doctrine.

35

THIS IS WHAT WITNESSING HAS BEEN REDUCED TO IN 2015

by steve2 in

threads on the newer jw face of public "witnessing" have shared in common the astonishment that jws safely park themselves behind their literature trolleys and exercise incredibly little contact with passersby.

whether the poster is talking about europe or the united states or australia, descriptions here are the same.. literature stands are protective sheilds behind which jws huddle, talking to each other, sipping on their espressos, whilst the disinterested world passes by.

neither the jws nor the passersby catch each others eyes.

OnTheWayOut

Cell phone providers set up tents. Even though they have a free product that people want, they have learned that the prominent word needs to be "FREE."

I tell you what, though. I am glad it wasn't so easy when I left. I doubt it, but I might have stayed.

47

"Make a list of people you want to meet in the New System!" (New September Watchtower)

by FusionTheism in

watchtower september 2015 study edition, "stand firm in the faith," paragraphs 16 and 17:.

following jesus example, we must read the bible daily, study it, and meditate on what we learn.

along with general bible study, dig into topics about which you may have questions.. you can imitate jesus by meditating on the wonderful promises jehovah has made to you.

OnTheWayOut

Christopher Hitchens
Charles Darwin
Jimi Hendrix
Freddy Mercury
Marilyn Monroe
James Dean

25

Fornicate and keep quiet, is it possible for a Governing Body member?

by John Aquila in

do you think any of the members of the governing body have at one time in their lives committed an immoral sex act but never confessed?

remember leo greenlees.

fornication, adultery or something else?

OnTheWayOut

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I have no doubt that someone on the Governing Body has committed the deed and not 'fessed up. He may not have been on the GB yet, but someone has done it.

Hoser on page 1: They could confess to the other members of the gb and keep their position too. They have evidence of jehovahs backing

Exactly true. They would not want to let the members know about any problems in the ivory tower and would sweep it under the rug.

25

It Is Official, Just as Predicted on this Site... Local Cong Donates all Monies on Deposit with You Know Who!

by RichardHaley in

my local cong just donated all money (4k +) on deposit with you know who to, you know who.

"since the society forgave all kingdom hall loans the boe felt it only appropriate to forgive the society of our loan to them.

" is exactly how it was presented to the r&f.

OnTheWayOut

Yes, let the elders pay it if they want to. Seems a little overreaching for a congregation that typically doesn't raise so much because it isn't needed. They take the 4k and then will get mad when each 500 is a little short.

The worst that can happen is that they dissolve the congregation and remove the elders. If I were still in, I would have loved to have been removed. Driving to the next Kingdom Hall isn't going to help donations. They have only the power given to them.

Edited to add:
I always thought the "Funds on loan to Watchtower" was a bad idea.

17

The real issue is long term solvency.

by joe134cd in

ok every one raves on at how miserable and tight wt is, while they are literally swimming in money and assets.

although this may be true this isn't the real issue or the problem to begin with.

the problem is having a long term survivable business plan.

OnTheWayOut

The problem is having a long term survivable business plan. This perfectly explains their behaviour and this is where all the cash is been put to ensure long term solvency. What other business wouldn't do the same thing. So think before you open your mouth.

Whose problem? Watchtower's problem. Then they should be honest and say why they need the money. "We've added some of our financial strategy cost projections to what we say it costs us to run this assembly hall that we own and pay no tax on, so if 40 or 50 dollars a head sounds high, that is why. We have pedophile lawsuits to pay for. We've taken all the cash from all the congregations because it takes money to make money and we want to make more because we anticipate donations will be down."

My problem is this multi-million dollar printing corporation representing God for my loved ones. And now that print is nearly dead, they won't just go away, but come up with more ways to manipulate people.

I am not sure what problem to which you are referring, but their behaviour is not perfectly explained to my JW loved ones. I am thinking before I open my mouth.

23

need clarification: i told my wife the type and anti-type abolishment made the FDS a parable and not factual. boy did this piss her off

by goingthruthemotions in

let's just say i sometimes don't know how to keep my trap shut.

i really need to learn to keep well enough alone when she attacks me.

keep in mind i never start the fights about the borg.

OnTheWayOut

Those were very good questions:

1. if we're living in the end times, why is the org still building and asking for money?
2. why is the anointed number keep going up?
3. i told her the abolishment of the type and anti-type made the FDS a parable and not actual. she than asked who is the FDS...i told her that we are all the FDS. this pissed her off
4. i asked her why don't we hear news about all the pedophile cases.

Especially number 3.

6

"Foot in the Door", or "Apathy with a Cart"?

by stuckinarut2 in

we have all noticed this and commented in other threads.... but isn't it interesting that in times past, witnesses earned a reputation of being so determined to share "the kingdom message" that they would put their foot in the door at a house to keep the conversation going!.

now, the apathy and lack of effort in service; particularly with the literature carts shows the complete opposite!

yet...the end is supposed to be even closer right?

OnTheWayOut

I was looking for a word the other day to describe what the owner of a Jeep Wrangler 4x4, an owner who likes to take on muddy trails, thinks of Jeep selling a small SUV, the Renegade, that's made to look like a Wrangler on the inside. The word was PURIST: a person who insists on absolute adherence to traditional rules or structures, especially in language or style. A synonym could be "stickler."

I was reading Renegade reviews and they described Jeep enthusiasts who did not like the vehicle because it wasn't what they wanted. All I could think was that those people could keep buying Wranglers and not worry about the people who buy the other vehicles with that Jeep brand name.

Okay, application time. It is possible that we are a wee bit on the side of purists when it comes to the recruiting work of Jehovah's Witnesses. Similar to military units and college fraternity members having gone through initiation that included some kind of hazing, many purists in those same units think the initiations and hazings should continue the same as they used to be, but new people in a different society frown on it. Could we want JW's to suffer for their hours? Could we say "I did it the hard way, they should too." ?

I am aware that there is a group of purists who would say that it's not jealousy over today's JW having it easier, but it's the power of conviction that JW's should have if they want to spread their word. And that conviction would make them be like the "foot-in-the-door" Witnesses.

But other than the fact that I want things to be tough on them so that they will dread the recruiting and young ones will often leave the religion that is so tough, I am glad they aren't really bothering people so much. I guess I am not a purist on this, but have mixed feelings.

After seeing the Scientology documentary, GOING CLEAR, I realized that Watchtower is reaching a similar point as the Scientologists. Weak members are becoming a liability instead of a source of profit. Watchtower, like Scientology, is rich in properties and could benefit from losing members that are not so hardcore, then sell Assembly Halls and Kingdom Halls. Literature is definitely becoming a liability, so they probably prefer the members sitting/standing around and sipping their coffee and gossiping instead of actually "placing" that literature.

10

Blame the imperfect people not the organization?

by Ghiagirl in

i met with a good family friend of mine who is a jw but will still hang out with me...apparently after this last time trying to encourage me.

lol.

but i shared a fraction of how i feel about the organization not to disrespect his beliefs, he just went off on the usual well it's an organization run by imperfect men and you can let the people affect you and need to remember it's the right religion and we need to put all that aside.

OnTheWayOut

remember it's the right religion and we need to put all that aside.

...my mom said this isn't you! You have always been sorry and wanted to do the right things and come back! She was certain that deep down I know what's right and that basically my husband is the one brainwashing me.

I have been right there. My JW wife is so sure it's the right religion because of the trinity and the cross and neutrality and being so much higher in morals than the world. (I know that's not true, but that's what she knows.) That's a hard suit of armor to penetrate.

My JW mother is so sure I was stumbled and want to go back one day. No matter how I state that is not so, she doesn't hear it.

I wish I had some great answers for you. For a long-haul help, read Steve Hassan's books to see how you might help dangerous mind-control cult members to slowly see through the lies. I am still working on it.