OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  131

  On the Relevancy of The Institutionalization of Sin

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  child murder, sodomy & corrupting the human genome are not new sins, they are old ones.

  what is new is their institutionalization.

  but even that isn't totally new.

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  OnTheWayOut

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJGR7TvFTxo
• 
  128

  Looking Back In Retrospect To 1975...

  by titch in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  greetings, folks: so, it's been 40 years since 1975. and, if you were actively involved with the witnesses back then, the mindset of many was, that by early autumn of 1975, it would mark the anniversary of 6000 years of human existence.

  and, the hope was then, that it would mark the start of the 1000-year of christ, from the heavenly realm.

  but, looking back now, 40 years ago, in june of 1975, only 3 more months remained until early autumn.

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  OnTheWayOut

  So, looking back in retrospect, do you remember anything---ANYTHING at all---that was happening on the world scene, that you would have thought, "Yeah, this is it, the Great Tribulation will soon be here, and the start of Armageddon"?

  I haven't read all the answers, but Watergate was wrapping up, so there was huge distrust of government feeding the thoughts that they would do something big and against religion.
  The Cold War was underway and the Soviets had broken some trade agreement early that year- fuel for the fire leading to war.
  The Soviets were doing nuclear tests.
  The violence between Ireland and England was going on early that year.

  Like any year, there was plenty for people to speculate about.
  
  
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  12

  Looking Back in Retrospect to 1995 ...

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i very much enjoyed reading through titch's thread: 'looking back in retrospect to 1975 ...' and all the comments from posters that lived through that event and remembered it.. i was born in 1979, so had nothing to offer for that thread.. however, i do remember very clearly living through 1995 (the end of the 1914 generation) and remember how it affected me and my view of the wts.

  up until oct/nov 1995, i genuinely believed the society to be god's one true earthly organisation.

  the watchtower presenting the new meaning of generation seriously shook my faith in the wts and, i suppose, started me on my journey to ttatt.

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  OnTheWayOut

  1995- They put a couple of paragraphs in a study article of the WATCHTOWER magazine about how Jesus didn't mean what the Watchtower leaders had been saying he meant all these years, but obviously Jesus meant something else. It wasn't an admission that they were just as wrong as they were about 1975 or any other previous failed prophecy/prediction. It was more like it had come to their attention that they can be more right with this new understanding than they previously were. The end of this system would come right on schedule, but we just don't know quite when it is.

  It read like the new understanding was so logical and easy to follow, so of course all the readers will accept it. In reality, it was using a wild definition for the word "generation" and it was very difficult to understand. When I studied the doctrine originally, it was heavily stressed that Watch Tower's teaching about the nearness of the end was not wrong. Now, I saw that they were avoiding the word "wrong" but they were still saying that their previous understanding was not right.

  I spoke with others about this upcoming study and some of the members were quite excited about this "new light." I asked the other more experienced elders about it and was amazed that they simply thought it was no big deal. "They change things sometimes." Well, the day comes when we studied the magazine article in the Kingdom Hall on Sunday. The paragraphs with this huge change in doctrine were covered just like any other paragraphs. The paragraphs were read aloud, the questions at the bottom of the page were asked, and someone answered them. That was it. In less than ten minutes, we were supposed to all change our long held beliefs that we were told were coming from Jehovah through Jesus through the Bible and believe something completely different from now on.

  Despite childhood exposure, I came into the JW's as an adult in 1988 and this was the very beginning of the end of my relationship with them. I had been allowing the literature and lectures to prevent me from thinking for myself for 7 years up until the time those paragraphs were studied. That ended the very moment it was breezed over in the Kingdom Hall like it was just another change. I didn't abandon doing what was expected of me. I didn't say anything to anybody about my new freedom to question things and think for myself, but I was not the same lemming willing to run right off the cliff if the other members did so. The words, "They change things sometimes" spoken by a fellow elder stuck with me. I had expected the end of the world to arrive so soon ever since I first embraced the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses, but now I knew it would possibly not come in my lifetime.

  I had never counted on retiring before Armageddon. I knew I was going to have to change my priorities. I laid the foundation to focus on finding a career instead of a job, and I stopped standing in my wife's way to get a college education. Sure, I stayed another 11+ years more, but with a different attitude. 1995 was huge for me.
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  32

  How to Block an Interrogation by J.W's

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "don't you believe that this is god's spirit-directed organization?".

  "do you believe that god is teaching us through the faithful & discreet slave?

  "who else has the truth?

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  OnTheWayOut

  How to block an interrogation-

  Don't get into an interrogation. Avoid getting cornered. If you happen to be cornered, say you are not interested in discussing the subject. "I am fine" or "Good day" or "Leave me now" are fine answers. When questioned, I always said "Thanks for your concern." That was it.
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  131

  On the Relevancy of The Institutionalization of Sin

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  child murder, sodomy & corrupting the human genome are not new sins, they are old ones.

  what is new is their institutionalization.

  but even that isn't totally new.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Did you know that a gay Sasquatch built the Egyptian pyramids? It's true.
• 
  131

  On the Relevancy of The Institutionalization of Sin

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  child murder, sodomy & corrupting the human genome are not new sins, they are old ones.

  what is new is their institutionalization.

  but even that isn't totally new.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  OnTheWayOut

  Sticking with the Bible, "in the beginning" God trotted out all the animals for Adam to find a suitable helper or companion or partner, because Adam was all alone. God already tested out goats and sheep and the like for Adam. So, if a man today doesn't find a suitable woman, it seems that God has already given the green light to try something else.

  If you want to use the statements of Leviticus as God's Laws against gay marriage, then the same book condemns eating shrimp and rabbit and raw meat, crop co-mingling, wearing linen and wool together. I am sure I could list a hundred other things, but you should get the point.

  While the writer(s) don't directly say it, it is clear that one of God's favorite humans (God doesn't kill him for murder and adultery and disobedience and all kinds of mischief) is David, and David had a gay love affair with Jonathon.

  The words of Paul against homosexuality are there, but today's translations of the Bible overstate much of what is said with a different tone than Paul intended. It seems that Paul was condemning lusts and fulfilling selfish desires much more than denouncing homosexuality. He was against sexual exploitations such as prostitution and meaningless fornication. Allowing gay marriage should alleviate much of that. I don't deny that there is some homophobia in the writings. I just suggest that before using those words to focus on homosexuals, you better consider the larger context of sexual encounters in general that Paul spoke against.

  My biggest problem with GOD SAYS SO as a reason to blast homosexual marriage is that the Bible has been used to justify oppressing women and blacks, justify slavery and the taking of child-brides. Deny it all you want, but if you want to say that the passages about Jesus make you a better person, okay then. But if you want to use the Bible as a whole to determine what is moral and upright, then know this- "People have used the Bible to subjugate women, support slavery, and spread homophobia."

  In order to survive, Christianity has had to grow and change. According to many Christians, Jesus said so.
  At Matt. 5:7, he said "Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."

  If you keep using old points of view in the church, when society condemned things such as mixing of races and equality of women and gay marriage, then your church is doomed. Just over 150 years ago, a black man was counted in America as three-fifths of a white man (or as almost a human being). Ask yourself if you want your grandchildren to look at your old point of view against gays the same way you looked at your grandparents old point of view against African American children attending school with their children or even marrying their child. Or try to think about what Jesus said, and grow with society.

  If the Bible has truth to it, did Paul go beyond Jesus' thoughts here?

  Matt. 19: 11-12:

  “Jesus replied, 'Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it'.”

  Did Jesus just there say that some people are "born that way" and it's okay? Did Jesus just say that some become that way, and regardless of how they got that way, others should accept it?" Say I am spinning this and I will say you are spinning what you say about gay marriage leading to child-victims and animal marriage to humans. It is clear that Jesus said that people who are not attracted to the opposite sex should not marry people of the opposite sex.

  Personally, I think the Bible has become something that any group can spin any way to excuse their hatred of others. But if you don't see it that way, I wanted you to see how the issue is not as clear as GOD SAID SO.
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  21

  The paradox of the WTBTS

  by coalize in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on one hand, wtbts blame you if you choose to work instead of pioneering, and on the another hand, they ask crazily amount of money!.

  isn't it paradoxal ?.

  if every jw leave his job and pioneer, no more money!.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Watchtower has kind of lost it's way. For the longest time, they were simply a religion backing a giant publishing company. The money was in the literature- the religion got free volunteers to sell it. Even when they stopped setting a price, the religion got the volunteers to donate for literature and make the literature at low cost.

  Conventions were their sales seminars and donations were huge at these affairs. They must still make money at conventions because they are still their huge thing all summer, but more and more of them are "in-house."

  As far as literature goes, it's not seeing the profits it used to. People don't want JW literature, don't donate for it. The main donations from members have been on the decline for a long time. They must still make money with literature or it would be gone, but they had to cheapen the product, print fewer pages, find some happy medium of how much to print and still get enough donations.

  Pioneering is still encouraged because every single ladder-climber at every single branch had to get there by pioneering in some fashion. It's all they know. But I don't think they really truly want more people trying to push more literature anymore. "Sit or stand near your cart and don't bother people. Let the spirit bring them to you."

  Although I am confident that they have plenty of money still, they have looked down the road and see that literature is not their future. They did the cash grab from real estate and congregations. They are still trying to put pressure on congregations to set a high monthly donation to Headquarters regardless of how much literature they receive and move for the printing company.

  The saddest thing as far as I am concerned- even their messed up business model of getting out of printing keeps them in the black for the rest of my lifetime. We definitely need donations to dry up and lawsuits to pile up.
• 
  131

  On the Relevancy of The Institutionalization of Sin

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  child murder, sodomy & corrupting the human genome are not new sins, they are old ones.

  what is new is their institutionalization.

  but even that isn't totally new.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  God says no

  So, be prepared to accept other things when God says YES.

  
  
  
• 
  131

  On the Relevancy of The Institutionalization of Sin

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  child murder, sodomy & corrupting the human genome are not new sins, they are old ones.

  what is new is their institutionalization.

  but even that isn't totally new.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I have been trying to help snap you out of your fundamentalist funk, Perry. You really are reaching out for help when you share this crap. Do not worry so much about the kind of sex and relationships that other adults are having, and realize that many of the biggest "freaks" out there have been Christians.

  If you don't like a society where personal freedom comes ahead of appeasement of Christians, then isolate yourself or get used to it because I would say that in America, people are starting to figure out that they shouldn't follow the morality of the Bible.

  Personally, your latest rant disgusts me in that it reveals such a narrow view.
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  47

  Songs celebrating leaving the faith? Not being a puppet, mind controlled, living life, etc etc

  by aley63 in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  i am looking for some songs that are in ref to celebrating leaving, seeing the light, realizing what you were told wasnt right, being happy w your life, etc etc.

  all those emotions about being controlled and repressed, being told what you can feel or think or how to live, blindly following the "brotherhood ".

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  OnTheWayOut

  Rascal Flatts

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz1N8W8phec
  "I'm Moving On"
  
  

  I've dealt with my ghosts and I've faced all my demons
  Finally content with a past I regret
  I've found you find strength in your moments of weakness
  For once I'm at peace with myself
  I've been burdened with blame, trapped in the past for too long
  I'm movin' on
  
  I've lived in this place and I know all the faces
  Each one is different but they're always the same
  They mean me no harm but it's time that I face it
  They'll never allow me to change
  But I never dreamed home would end up where I don't belong
  I'm movin' on
  
  I'm movin' on
  At last I can see life has been patiently waiting for me
  And I know there's no guarantees, but I'm not alone
  There comes a time in everyone's life
  When all you can see are the years passing by
  And I have made up my mind that those days are gone
  
  I sold what I could and packed what I couldn't
  Stopped to fill up on my way out of town
  I've loved like I should but lived like I shouldn't
  I had to lose everything to find out
  Maybe forgiveness will find me somewhere down this road
  I'm movin' on
  
  I'm movin' on
  I'm movin' on