OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  579

  Won't get fooled again ...Moon Landing.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was fooled by the witnesses.

  what can i learn from that?

  not to accept things at face value but to seek out opinion and different view points.. hence my question " do you believe man landed on the moon?.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Six manned landings and numerous unmanned landings, along with telescopes that can see things left on the moon. Twelve astronauts supposedly walked the moon and brought back rocks.

  It's too much to fake the six landings, too many people involved to keep a secret, too huge a risk to fake the rock, too difficult to put up six American flags by later unmanned craft so that they can be seen. (True, Apollo 11's flag fell down, allegedly from takeoff rocket exhaust, but it is still there.)

  As much as 28% of the Russian public believes the landings were faked, but that's a pride thing. The Soviet government would actively have proved such a faking if they believed in it, they had the expertise in how difficult it was because they failed to get there.

  If you want to believe the very first moon landing was faked to win a Space Race, that is one thing. You could believe the technology was there, but not quite ready in 1969. You could claim the second landing (or another) put the evidence for the first landing there. But that just buys you a little time past 1969 and still leaves quite a handful of people to keep quiet and a Soviet government to trick. Remember that the Soviets may not have gotten a human being to the moon, but they had already sent hardware to the moon and into orbit and tracked the American missions.
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  27

  Theocratic Warfare

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no doubt we noticed the royal commission ask vin toole (and i think terry o'brien) about the expression "theocratic warfare"?.

  they were asked to explain it and what is meant to witnesses.. vin outrightly lied when he said he "had never heard of that expression!".

  i remember him using that term in conversations and talks many times!!

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  OnTheWayOut

  It is very simple. He was actively engaged in theocratic warfare when he answered a question about the same.

  "I have never heard of such an expression (coming out of the mouth of a non-member)."
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  10

  The Guardian: JWs Church says it will comply with mandatory reporting of child abuse

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/aug/04/jehovahs-witness-church-says-it-will-comply-with-mandatory-reporting-of-child-abuse.

  august 4, 2015. australian associated press .

  the jehovahs witness church says it will comply with mandatory reporting obligations when they learn about sexual abuse crimes against children in their congregation.. a royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse has heard that the theocratic church records more than one child abuse allegation every month yet in 60 years has never reported them to police.. in the second week of a hearing into the churchs handling of abuse incidents, the head of the communitys service desk, rodney spinks, acknowledged they dealt with matters internally and did not encourage reporting to police.. the service desk under the auspices of the churchs legal entity, the watchtower bible and tract society australia, is the first point of contact for elders looking for advice on how to deal with child abuse reports.. spinks said the first issue addressed is the safety of the child, and elders are referred to watchtower publications on the matter.. they are also given generic advice based on a handbook that says they should never suggest not reporting the allegation to police.. spinks acknowledged they had not had a practice, against the wishes of the victim or otherwise, to directly report to police.. the commission chair, peter mcclellan, pointed out there were mandatory reporting obligations when a crime had been committed.. spinks said he had been made aware of this in these hearings and the church would accept and comply with mandatory reporting, regardless of our strongly held religious belief that individuals should have the right to decide what is done with that information.. he said when there were mandatory reporting requirements with some sort of uniformity across the country we will happily and willingly comply.. mcclellan pointed out that uniform laws were not yet in place and they would differ from state to state but they would impose a criminal sanction on a person who knows [about an abuse crime] and does not report.. spinks said he understood that.. mcclellan said the church needed to have a very good look maybe with the help of the churchs lawyers at what the law provides.. the commissioner also pointed out that what the jehovahs witnesses were doing was different to what other churches might be doing because you might be taking allegations and resolving, as you see it, the truth of the allegation by reason of your process.. the commission has heard that the jehovahs witness process is based on a biblical rule that the wrongdoing is only proven when there are two witnesses, and expect the abuse victim to confront the abuser..

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  OnTheWayOut

  Not that this isn't good news but:

  The Jehovah’s Witness church says it will comply with mandatory reporting obligations when they learn about sexual abuse crimes against children in their congregation.

  That's so generous of them to be caught in such a mess and then agree to do what is now mandatory of them anyway. Do they want a parade held in their honor for this landmark decision?
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  22

  Are they trying to make me feel like crap?

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so i have not reported a single hour of fs or family worship in over 8 months.

  have not given a single comment in a meeting for over a year.

  a few weeks ago, my brother in law, who is an ms now, approached me.

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  OnTheWayOut

  It's time for you to quit the Ministry School - for personal reasons!

  
  

  I fully agree. Or else:
  
  "Honey, I remember you telling me that the other day in field service, a householder asked you about some Australian Royal Commission. Instead of covering this week's material as a family, we will have to study that on our own, because we are going to learn about what's happening in Australia so that we can be ready to make a response in service.
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  50

  Will Child Abuse Issue Keep Growing Like A Forest Fire?

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i don't know if a commercial will come up and i can't find this on youtube as it is probably copyright material or i am just not in a good search pattern today.

  anyway, try to view this if you haven't seen it:.

  https://rutube.ru/video/0ba7a3ee7e89dbbc730c4af32032e33b/?ref=logo .

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  OnTheWayOut

  Vidiot, I think they are a ways off from internet-only. But it could happen. They have the money already, and their business model is dead. I see them still trying to keep a physical presence, maybe they can just have the mega-church-style Assembly halls.
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  53

  Just wrote my DA letter....

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife and i planned on fading but the elders now want a shepherding call and we are just done.

  i know that many play the game to try to stay in, but i'm not a game player and neither is my wife.

  our families already shun us because we reached out to a disfellowshipped family member.

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  OnTheWayOut

  ...can't they?

  They can do whatever they want, sometimes BOE's break their own rules or one member convinces another to agree to be a second witness to hearing things said that actually were not said.

  SO WHAT? Let them do as they do. Do what you must do.
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  53

  Just wrote my DA letter....

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife and i planned on fading but the elders now want a shepherding call and we are just done.

  i know that many play the game to try to stay in, but i'm not a game player and neither is my wife.

  our families already shun us because we reached out to a disfellowshipped family member.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Thanks for this update. There really is no hurry to such a decision. In this case, the badgering might make your wife want to DA, or the lack of badgering might make you both decide it isn't necessary, or something else. You've already made your giant leap in understanding TTATT.
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  23

  ... and keep fighting

  by nevaagain in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  last week we had the cos visit and i wanted to share my experiences with you.

  some background info on me, i knowttatt and am fully awake, my wife also knows my doubts and read a few things on the internet but she is still 100% commited to the truth, saying everything on the apostate sites are lies.

  so right now i am in just to keep the status quo.

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  OnTheWayOut

  The substitude added that it is indeed the WT being on trial here, because they were
  apperently trying to keep the brothers from going to the authorities. .....
  Now the real CO tried to shoot it down, saying that the elders would never tell the parents not to go to the
  police and the allegations have no claim.

  That's Watchtower history reinventing itself. Regardless of past policy, they throw more current policy in the faces of members (even CO's) so often that they believe Watchtower never tried to prevent going to the police. It will work on members but the public, certainly the Australian public, will hear otherwise via the questioning. And since otherwise is the truth, it will stick with the public worldwide that JW's avoid reporting.
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  50

  Will Child Abuse Issue Keep Growing Like A Forest Fire?

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i don't know if a commercial will come up and i can't find this on youtube as it is probably copyright material or i am just not in a good search pattern today.

  anyway, try to view this if you haven't seen it:.

  https://rutube.ru/video/0ba7a3ee7e89dbbc730c4af32032e33b/?ref=logo .

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  OnTheWayOut

  Replies to page 5:
  
  Blondie, the protection of children must be first. The justice for victims must come ahead of hurting Watchtower. I do not have the answers, but I like the thoughts you offer. I do not deny bias in my case. But where I discuss forest fires and this getting out of control for Watchtower, it comes from a bystander to the pedophile issue who was never victimized but wishes to see pain put upon the organization that magnified the problem. If I were ever a participant in the problem (iow, if I were ever an elder on a judicial matter that helped sweep things under the rug) I would hope that I could apologize to the victim and be as helpful as possible to the authorities now. I would be even more upset at Watchtower when I saw what they had done with my help, so I would more so want them to experience pain.

  millie210, I just can't help but think about the "Cosby effect." An issue that seems dead-and-buried arises and several individual victims learn that they can have their voices heard. Despite the statute of limitations or other factors, the issue gains momentum and people are swayed to the side of victims. It's only sad that the vast majority of Americans (and I hope it's just Americans) would care more about Cosby and less than 50 victims than they would ever care about Watchtower and it's possibly thousands of witnesses.

  Vidiot, I do highly wonder about your point A having validity. Even without details on names and congregations, it could happen anyway. The Roman Catholic Church is huge, but it was crippled by the scandal. Even without so many families declaring their abandonment, they have ceased church activity and have certainly withdrawn their children from church activity.
  While your point B is interesting and possibly valid, I also know that if the sh*t hits the fan, Watchtower would throw all the necessary elders under the bus if that put them in a better position.

  Cattails, I have to assume this is correct about many congregations. I climbed the ladder to elder rather quickly in my first congregation without hearing about this, and the gossipers may have always been leery of me because of my title. I didn't hear about it, but I have heard so much since leaving.

  Flipper, that's what I think. I think the JW's will be among the last to know details because they will follow marching orders to steer clear of the stories. But people will keep asking them about the issue. If the Roman Catholic Church were going door-to-door, it would have happened to them.
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  53

  Just wrote my DA letter....

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife and i planned on fading but the elders now want a shepherding call and we are just done.

  i know that many play the game to try to stay in, but i'm not a game player and neither is my wife.

  our families already shun us because we reached out to a disfellowshipped family member.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Closure can be awesome. You have made a great leap.

  So, what's the process? We send our letter to a few elders....

  That's the end of it. Don't worry. You don't have to take their calls and you don't have to do more even if they ask for you to specifically say something in writing. You are done.