Posts by OnTheWayOut

96

Ray Franz was an Idiot

by vinman in

ray franz who gave us insight into the gb due to a crisis of conscience was an absolute moron, with absolutely no critical thinking skills whatsoever like all of us have.

i mean, to have a conscience based on some magic man in the sky.. how stupid can you be?

in search of christian freedom?

OnTheWayOut

Steve2
Ray Franz was above all else a respectful and empathic man. He did not attempt to convert people to his point of view but was cautious in his statements because he knew that most of his listeners had been through the mill with organized religion.

I guess I don't see this on this forum. I see name calling, calling God names, and much arrogance and disrespect.

You know, we don't all claim to be Ray Franz or Ray-Franz-like. Not that he elevated himself personally, but Ray probably felt a need to deliver the highest quality book. He wasn't here in the trenches with us as many others are also not here in the trenches. He sought to make a difference in the way he could. We are not writing a book here, and we are free agents. We are free to debate. I don't speak for everyone, so I won't generalize. But as for me, I don't see that disrespecting an imaginary god is disrespecting people who believe in it.

63

EXACTLY Why JW's Are NOT Christian

by Perry in

a lot of people, ex-jws, believers and unbelievers alike, think that jw's are just a somewhat kooky brand of christianity.

is it possible to "try and follow jesus" and not be christian?

what exactly makes someone a christian?

OnTheWayOut

The Bible can be made to say anything from Perry's beliefs to Watchtower's doctrines to the nutso teachings of self-appointed messiahs and televangelists either after your money or your sex (or both). To be a Christian means to follow what one believes were the teachings of Jesus. But most are based on 4 bogus books not written by the men whose names are on them, not inspired, and surviving above other books because the Romans attempted to destroy the other books that had slightly different stories.

Perry, your beliefs come from men, not from Jesus or God. Men make doctrines.

Oh, I admire people who try to live up to the standards of Buddha or Jesus that they think lead to peace, but not so much the men who try to insist that their standards come from the divine.

96

Ray Franz was an Idiot

by vinman in

ray franz who gave us insight into the gb due to a crisis of conscience was an absolute moron, with absolutely no critical thinking skills whatsoever like all of us have.

i mean, to have a conscience based on some magic man in the sky.. how stupid can you be?

in search of christian freedom?

OnTheWayOut

I challenge believers on this forum when it is appropriate. But I don't generally challenge them outside of this forum unless they challenge my non-belief. Certainly, I recognize when I want to call someone an "idiot" or "absolute moron" for their beliefs "based on some magic man in the sky" that I am really saying that about my former self.

I was an idiot, an absolute moron- for believing in the JW "magic man in the sky."

But really, I have come to learn that while I was giving (in my opinion) totally stellar public talks that "proved" so much that it was all the truth, that I was really falling for every kind of faulty logic there is. And it isn't all about whether a person has a high IQ or not. In my case, it was a need to believe. In other cases, it is the same or perhaps a high intelligence but with a limited imagination (I can't imagine how everything came to be by accident.) ,,,,or it's just a high way of thinking that decides we really cannot know everything, even what we think we know. I mean, I have read the philosophy that says we might all just be parts of a computer simulation, or even that we might all be projected from a 2-dimensional recording (or live) and only THINK we are in a three-dimensional world. You could also be just a brain in a vat of liquid, being stimulated to think your world is real, and none of it really is real. YADDA YADDA YADDA.

My point is that we can't just label believers as idiots. We should challenge them, but there are so many different thoughts that go beyond intelligence alone.

Now, on Ray- yes he remained a believer. Yes, he would have stayed a JW if they didn't kick him out. It just doesn't matter. He did more for the cause than most any of us combined with the exception of a handful of people.

38

Hello

by Munster Abu in

jw
friends

new here but looking forward to joining in some of the discussions with you all.. a small bit about me: i'm shane.

was raised as a jw in the uk by my mum (single parent family) from about 2 years of age.

got baptised at 15 for all the wrong reasons.

OnTheWayOut

Hey Shane, it's good to have an exit strategy. Hope to hear more from you. Welcome aboard.

16

The social institution of the Kingdom Hall.

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

it is a warm sunny day, blue skies and i am excited by the prospect this sunday holds.

will i dismantle a motorbike?

paint a picture?

OnTheWayOut

The day is a fortune cookie without Watchtower obligations. You can choose to open it and read it and be enthralled by it, or you can choose to eat or not eat the cookie itself, or you can choose to do something else and ignore the whole thing. (Maybe some poet would like to shorten that.)

In the days of JWism, there was so much to do, especially on weekends. Now, there's so much to choose to do or not to do. It is awesome.

I will enjoy something of the great outdoors today. My schedule was changed last-minute by a co-worker's mother's passing and a visitation scheduled for today, but that's okay- the rest of the day is mine and not Watchtower's.

26

My Book, 'Gifts in Men', by Patricia F.Sadio

by GiftsinMen in

another member on here announced the publication of my new book "gifts in men, a heavier responsibility" a couple of months ago and some of you asked who i was as to my authenticity and motives.

i have had an amazing reaction to my book even from jws who know me and my story but were still shocked at the details.

i was not raised a jw, not disfellowshipped nor disassociated and loved being a regular pioneer, serving in uk and ireland.

OnTheWayOut

I can't answer for people, Xanthippe. But maybe the difference is that some of us mentioned our book after we were long-time posters. I have no problem with someone promoting their book, but maybe some don't care for someone coming on-board as a new poster just to promote. Those same people don't need to question me or Punk or Terry to know where we are coming from, because they already know from our posting record.

As for me, the more books out there, the better. And books need promoting. Welcome, GiftsinMen. Good luck with your book.

While I have not read GIFTS IN MEN: A HEAVIER RESPONSIBILITY by Patricia Sadio, apparently she is a psychotherapist as the back cover says.
http://www.amazon.com/Gifts-Men-A-Heavier-Responsibility/dp/1508919623

I think many here can use a good dose of reading from therapists/counselors. I am currently reading EXITING THE JW CULT: A HEALING HANDBOOK FOR CURRENT AND FORMER JW's by Bonnie Zieman (http://www.amazon.com/EXiting-JW-Cult-Handbook-Witnesses/dp/1508477132/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1440937707&sr=1-1&keywords=exiting+the+jw+cult+a+healing+handbook). She is another psychotherapist. I really like the help her book offers, and I especially hope that people affected by the Watchtower but who don't go to therapy read such books.

34

Hebrew Was The First Language

by Bloody Hotdogs! in

according to the newest watchtower:.

jehovah communicated with adam in the garden of eden, using human language.

god likely did so in an ancient form of hebrew.

OnTheWayOut

They are kind of stuck with saying Hebrew was the first language. If they say Adam lived 6000+ years ago and Moses wrote the beginnings of the Bible in Hebrew 3500+ years ago, but had some writings from others available to him from previously (I believe they still say that) then that doesn't give enough time for developing Hebrew later than the beginning and establishing it as a written language later.

16

Advice

by Tigerlove in

hello, new member here.

i have a question that has been bugging me for a couple of months now.

so i have been dating this guy(a witness ) for over a year now.

OnTheWayOut

I wish I could offer something better, but I cannot.

You are going to be, at best, a booty call. At the worst, he will seem to appease your desires to get closer and let his family know about it, but will always back down and delay doing anything.

RUN!

I know you don't want that answer, so here's the softer one: Give him the ultimatum to take you to his family and declare his intentions, or else you are outta there. That way, you gave him a chance.

36

How many here believed, down deep in your heart that the end would come in 1975?

by James Mixon in

i was straddling the fence on that one, just in case they were right.

i don't recall.

telling anyone this is your last chance.

OnTheWayOut

My mother was a full believer. She didn't try all that hard to push that 1975 part on me and my siblings, but wanted us to know the religion as the truth, the way. She and my dad divorced before 1975 after the death of my older brother. While they never really would have made it back together, Mom and Dad were dating each other in 1975, to try to work it out maybe. But when midnight, morning of January 1st, 1976 arrived, my drunk dad called my mom and said "I'm still here." That was the end of that reconciliation.

26

Buddhism Anyone?

by LaurenM in

so, i have recently been delving in buddhism and i must say it all makes sense!

like, the philosophies and ideas are what i've always believed but could never put a name to.

for example, they don't believe in god, they teach acceptance of all faiths, that peace can be achieved - not by changing other people - but by changing yourself, that everyone has goodness in themselves, that happiness can be gained internally (not externally as a gift from god), and that life is temporary so we should enjoy it!

OnTheWayOut

Buddhism allows one to focus on whatever part they like and reject whatever part they don't like. I enjoy the tranquility of eastern thought, particularly Zen Buddhism and the Tao. I don't buy that Siddartha Gotama reached a point of "enlightenment" and mystical things were within his grasp. But I also see that most Buddhists seem to be able to understand that their stories are not literal- something Christianity has forgotten.

Siddartha Gotama probably did explore many beliefs and probably did discover "the middle path." I like that Buddhism is not focused on one right way and condemning other ways and that it really is not interested in preaching/proselytizing.

An author who has greatly helped me find my way is Pema Chödrön. http://www.amazon.com/Pema-Chodron/e/B000AP9Y2A