Posts by OnTheWayOut

74

Jehovah's Witnesses May Have Peaked in Membership at 8 Million (+/-)

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .

org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.

instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.

OnTheWayOut

Cofty, thanks for your thoughts. Financial support is the end-all and the most important figure. If they plummet in membership but increased in donations from the literature carts, they would not care one bit. But it just isn't happening. The members have traditionally gave time instead of money, and their time is down and their money is not up.

sir82, they may indeed find a way to increase memorial attendance, but even though they claimed growth and a tremendous response to their web presence, it went down one year. I will contend that stopping the count of partakers is a sign of what's to come- the making up of numbers based on web-hits. They will enter the realm of fiction. Well, they probably already entered it, but they will expand it.
Numbers went down before and may slightly rebound here and there, but I am being bold in predicting that their days of expansion and growth are done. The internet, their goofy thoughts, poor handling of child abuse, their taking the money from congregations- all that and more- I say it's unrecoverable and will be their downfall.
I could be wrong and they can find a new way to recover. But I would bet that they are looking for ways to be content with a smaller membership right now.

68

My Explanation of God.

by LAWHFol in

i am a theist & this is my version of god.. instead of using the term god, i'll use "unseen presence".. this unseen presence, is perfect in every way.

this presence is so perfect it can seem a bit boring.this perfection can be seen in the laws of science, for example gravity.. it does not sometimes work, depending on the mood of some one in the sky, it always works, perfectly.

gravity does not get angry and decide to stop working, and cause the death of innumerable living beings, it just works, through thick or thin, it is reliable.. what allows this unseen presence to remain perfect, is the fact that it does not act based on emotion, or strategy or regret.. it acts based on law, mathematical law.. this unseen presence is not partial to jews or muslims or jw's it is completely impartial at all times, to everything that exists.

OnTheWayOut

I am an atheist & This is My version of God.

Instead of using the Term God, I'll use "Creation of Man".

This "Creation of Man" is flawed in Every Way. No matter how hard each group or individual tries to make their god into perfection, they can't cover everything, and they mess up.

They typically put their "Creation of Man" outside of the Laws of Science to explain him/her/it. For example Gravity.. The "Creation of Man" found in the Bible makes the sun stand still at one point, which just could not happen. The writers of the Bible make the son of their "Creation of Man" able to defy gravity and walk on water, even allowing a human to walk on water. And you would be hard pressed to find any exceptions in the "Creations of Man" throughout all of history. Each and every one seems to be above or beyond the laws of science. Why, the "Creation of Man" of Judaeo-Christianity is even exempt from believers' insistence that all matter and energy must have had a beginning.

Despite the assertion in this thread that the poster's "Creation of Man" does not Act based on Emotion, we read clearly that it does act on emotion constantly, feeling regret over creating man or angry at groups or individuals, causing great destruction of lives all the time.

This "Creation of Man" from the Bible is very Partial. In the beginning, a human must be without the knowledge of good and bad yet totally obedient. That develops into the "Creation of Man" preferring descendants of Abraham- the Jews- over all others and having their walled city simply collapse despite the "Creation of Man" never revealing himself to the non-Jews. Later, all people are supposed to convert to the beliefs that a guy born in obscurity and killed in obscurity was the son of this "Creation of Man" with a kinder, gentler message. If you don't accept that, then you can go to Hell.

This "Creation of Man" is very high on himself and jealous, it does desire to be Worshipped and Praised, it does declare it will punish those that say it cannot be Known.

This "Creation of Man" has a ton of Laws in the Bible. Some are self-contradictions to each other.

This "Creation of Man" has made endless Commandments for Humans.. depending on which humans are telling you this.

This "Creation of Man" is a thing of superstitious sheep herders. Move on from it and embrace your own intelligence and the collected wisdom of science. and Evolve.

74

Jehovah's Witnesses May Have Peaked in Membership at 8 Million (+/-)

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .

org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.

instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.

OnTheWayOut

I don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but I have read enough on JWN to state my opinion pretty strongly.

Memorial attendance for 2015 was down.

While they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new Kingdom Halls, and everybody is still in recovery from Watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new Kingdom Halls.

Putting GB members on the videos at jw . org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men. Instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of Lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.

The GB lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation."

Young people in first, second, and third world countries are finding access to the internet. Even long-time faithful ones are being steered to the internet. Regardless of how much they are told, they will stray and take a look at jwfacts or negative reports on child abuse or something about the Australian Royal Commission or YADDA YADDA.

They have manipulated numbers for peaks for years, but that is catching up to them.

Your thoughts on this are appreciated.

27

Evolution and Creation—both are stories!

by lsw1961 in

there are number of nobel laureates and other great scientists in both the camps defending their respective theories of evolution and creation, which means both are just stories, and both suffer from having no eye-witnesses.

if either of them were true, all scientists would have accepted it unanimously as they do with rest of the laws such as law of gravity..

this does not mean that there is no god.

OnTheWayOut

Your logic is like this:

All left-handed people die, therefore left-handedness is either evil or causes death.

You leave so many important details out and reach outlandish conclusions.

So you claim that neither evolution nor creation is true because "all scientists" have not accepted one or the other unanimously.

34

Hypothetical Question...

by JW_Rogue in

i was just thinking that the org has said lots of outrageous things over it's history and most jws just continue onward without a second thought.

so my question is what do you think would have to be said from the platform or wt to get people to get up and walk out immediately?

is it even possible?

OnTheWayOut

"Watchtower has decided that the paradise earth is not real."

"The organization of Watchtower is the false prophet."

Printed in a magazine: "We blew it, we spent all the money and need more. God didn't bless us. We really don't have any clue what we are doing. And when you all accepted 'overlapping generation,' we laughed for days."

"We are immediately starting tithing of 10% and we will need your tax returns for 3 years."

4

Young couple invited to School for Kingdom Evangelizers

by StarTrekAngel in

a young couple from our cong has been invited to attend the school for kingdom evangelizers.

we found out because they rent a small home from my mil.

they came to tell her they will be leaving for florida for one month to two months.

OnTheWayOut

If I were to 'put the rent on hold,' I would ask them to move out entirely and not expect me to lose rent while they are gone. "Put your stuff in storage so I can get a new tenant." That, or pay the rent for the month you are gone and we can break the lease after you find out if you will be leaving. (If there is no lease, even easier to ask them to leave.)

Whatever their future, you can bet it's entirely unpaid.

31

Bethels all downsizing within a year?

by Formerbrother in

why is there a huge cull going on of all bethels around the world?.

about 80% cull within the next year?.

some have been in bethel for decades and will be sent packing, the 20% of bethelites who stay will have to do their own food, laundry and clean their flat.

OnTheWayOut

I had this silly theory before.

Watchtower has always been sort of jealous of the Mormons because they are seen as more mainstream, what with celebrating Christmas and even showcasing the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, encouraging college and personal advancement 'in the world', yet also accepting a set tithing.

My silly theory was that, unable to duplicate what LDS have, Watchtower switched to attempting to duplicate what Scientology has- a bunch of money with their tax-free status and no real need to spend that money on the members, therefore no real need for large membership.

Well, Watchtower took all the money and finds that ongoing contributions are not as high as hoped for. You know- take all my money and ask for more, I don't think so. Add the facts that they took congregation savings along with their asking higher rates at assemblies yet they are producing less printed materials, and the people who didn't go to college and didn't accept so much overtime are taking advantage of the anonymous aspect of their donation arrangement and giving no more (perhaps less) than in the past.

So, even if Watchtower is not yet at their dire circumstances as regards money, they are not wasting time. Despite their huge campaign of introducing new-style commercial Kingdom Halls, they are not building too many new halls. Despite the workers being paid slave wages, they really don't see a need to keep them. Recruitment will be down, but as long as they have all the money already, who needs people?

129

Silent And Sweet Rebellion Going On Within JW Organization!

by lsw1961 in

after 1975, the vast majority remained as though nothing has happened.

but some left the organization.

however, there arose a third category who did not leave the organization, but brought a new view into their heart: jws are right in their core cause (gods kingdom as the solution to mankinds problems) but may or may not be right in their supplementary teachings, hence are not bothered about changes happening in this unimportant area..

OnTheWayOut

We freely share our thinking and views. Interestingly, we all think alike although we were, in the past, disconnected and found far flung. We all apply Ecclesiastes 12:12 (too many writings, reading them all is wearisome to us) primarily to WT writings and even to Scriptures. We give importance only to those verses dealing with God’s Kingdom and the Kingdom qualities needed to inherit it (such as Mathew 9:13; 25:31-40)

I highlighted the key overstatements you made. If you all think alike, then you are no better than the JW's. Diversity of thinking should be expected. I don't believe you freely, like in front of other JW's, share what you think. It would be guarded. If you all apply certain scriptures, again- no freedom, just slaving for something different.

This post is total b.s.! There are many among the meeting attenders that are independent thinkers that don't agree with what they are hearing and reading. To overstate it like you are some kind of emerging group that works as a group is a disservice.

21

One day assemblies

by Sour Grapes in

this may have been discussed before.

the costs for using the assembly hall for a one day last saturday was $12,000 with another assembly for the other half of the circuit on sunday, which will ring up another $12,000.

if the assembly was for two days the friends might roll their eyes if it were announced the costs for the two days was $24,000.

OnTheWayOut

Yes, Cha Ching. When the elders meet to discuss finances, they decide that so much is needed on hand for expenses leading up to the next assembly and (ocassionally) so much is needed for their circuit overseer's new couch or security gate or whatever, and actual expenses (not part of the padded expenses) like new security radios or some kind of thing that you would think are part of the assembly hall but are actually a part of each separate circuit using the hall are tallied in. (If it's stuff only used for the Assemblies, why can't they leave it there and all circuits share it?) After that, they say that after the deficit is met (and it almost always is- certainly if you took their surplus into account, it would be) they should send the rest of the money to Watchtower and to the Assembly Hall (which is also Watchtower). That way, they don't report a bunch of surplus next time.

So Watchtower charges too high an amount to begin with, then expects any money above and beyond that amount be forked over also instead of giving the members a lower "deficit" next time.

I was at one of these votes where we voted not to send the "surplus" to Watchtower but to send it to a European Congregation that was in dire straits over some situation. It was perfectly within the rules at the time, and we still paid Watchtower's set bill. It happened, but at the next assembly, we were all chewed out for doing that. "Watchtower will decide how to help out individual congregations." I think, deep down, we knew this would happen but we were glad to help people out and didn't give a damn about being chewed out. But we never did it again.

13

One Reason Why I Could Never Again be an Elder

by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

there appears to be several crises inflicting themselves upon the wtbts all at once.

the crises are likely related....financial difficulties - hence the increasing publicity given to contributing money.

reduced production - probably related to above (literature and building principally).

OnTheWayOut

Sticking with the subject you discussed, elders receive nothing from Watchtower about handling child abuse and caring properly for children in their midst. If anything, they receive bad training to encourage children to be more active and progress toward more active membership in the religion.

Previous instructions to put a child in the same room with the person s/he is accusing of molestation and make the charge out loud to their face- that's been about the worst thing they could have done to a poor child.

Even now, not officially discouraging them from going to the police, but not standing by them as they do so, along with an accusatory attitude whenever allegations come up- this is not any help at all.

And as far as being an elder in such situations, if you were to take on training on your own, local elders would scoff at you, but then put a greater burden on you to handle ALL of these cases. And Watchtower would throw you under the bus and blame YOU for whatever results. Even without such training, following Watchtower instructions to the letter, they might still throw you under that bus.

An individual elder can be named in lawsuits over their counsel and actions or lack of actions in cases.

No thanks.