i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .
org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.
instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.
Page 7 replies:
JWdaughter, thanks for excellent thoughts on their contrasts for claiming people in one sense and denying them in another.
JW GoneBad, attendance is another sign that they are not God's "one true religion" but just another religion.
berrygerry, your second comment on page 7- I have noticed that. Huge campaigns don't bring anyone new in. On the third one, Jackson represents the average thoughts from the GB- they think any slight statement on a matter is as good as apologizing.
i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .
org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.
instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.
Start page 7 replies:
dropoffyourkeylee, 5 newbies added is statistically going to be way less than the number of deaths in that group. And that doesn't take into account how many were DF'ed or quit going.
i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .
org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.
instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.
More Page 6 replies:
TheOldHippie, so I could speculate that Watchtower is God's organization like the Jews were God's organization. God insisted the Jews convert to Christianity and will insist that today's faithful convert to GBv3. Is that close enough?
slimboyfat, I will let Dozy answer any specifics on the decline starting in the 70's. I know that printing companies were still doing fine back then.
AllTimeJeff, all the former Bethelites and missionaries that will flood the congregations- that is part of what makes me think they have peaked. I think they normally would not do all this stuff at once unless they were desperate and have really blundered with money. So many disgruntled people at once- that's a big problem.
Calebs Airplane, you may be right. I won't go so far as that for sure. But I do think that even 8 million was inflated and never a full reality.
ATJ, if there is a scandal to be had, I hope it gets exposed.
i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .
org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.
instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.
Starting Page 6 Replies:
Flipper, AMEN. I think ATJ was referring to a Watchtower leadership admitting mistakes in prophecy when they have no other choice- millions of followers gone and a lean organization left that would disintegrate without such an admission. And like you, I wonder if, even then, they will say much was wrong. I suppose it would have to be a different leadership that takes over and says "Those last guys were wrong." Even then, i can see it like you- "Those last guys were wrong, but you were told to investigate on your own like the Bereans did, and to watch out for false prophets. You share the blame."
Thanks for reading and joining in, ShirleyW.
freddo, I think about the same thing.
Kicked out Bethelite to congregation members: "No, I am not here to straighten out your congregation, I am not a spy for Watchtower. I am here to serve you and your territory, but i need your help. I gave the best years of my life and have no savings, no education. But am I bitter, NO- why do you ask?"
And over time, I can hear them letting stray comments slip into their platform talks or interactions with JW's, comments that suggest that WTS is run by clowns.
i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .
org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.
instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.
Last page 5 reply:
All Time Jeff, here's some of the inconsistencies with Watchtower-
1975 came and went and nothing happened. People left. But the bills were still being payed.
But not so much today. Right up until 2015, many who might have wanted to question WTS still were able to tell themselves that God was blessing the direction they were taking. Today, members know the organization is struggling and that the GB is not handling it like "spirit-directed" people should.
now they have completely done a 180 and asking everyone to get all of their information from the Internet.
To old-timers, this is way deeper than the flip to blood fractions.
Internet- BAD
Internet- BAD
Internet- BAD
Internet- WONDERFUL and we fully embrace using it. All things lead to the website
printing is dying
...but surely, Jehovah will bless the printing of Watchtower materials. Nope. People have too much to read and we should print less.
Thanks for insightful comments.
hello first of all to those that remember me.
i'm doing well, 10 years since my missionary trip to cameroon.
i've met a couple of goals.
Hey Jeff,
Knorr was a man of "his" time. About anything a giant printing company does today is going to be vastly different with worse results than in Knorr's day. I am fascinated at how he focused on productivity while letting Fred Franz focus on the batshit crazy doctrine. But the charismatic leader needed today would be completely different.
But I agree that is the big difference between today and yesterday. They had what they needed yesterday and they have clowns today.
my siblings and i have been talking about the money woes.
we have thrown around the idea for them to keep the preaching/pioneer arrangement to keep some busy.
to increase cash flow they can institute a new tithing arrangement.
Stop giving the Watchtower such good ideas. I can see this happening, but it will take some major changes in attitude because JW's are so high on claiming they are so different from Christendom.
They have sent the Bethelites "into the field." They have the special pioneers now as pioneers, they can talk about how there are so many doing so much. But the biggest problem is money. (God is so bad with money) The average Joe who cannot pioneer- they don't need him standing by the cart/table. They need him working, and donating the overtime.
i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .
org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.
instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.
Page 5 replies:
Kairos, I believe the JW's see this. it adds to their insecurity about JW's being "spirit directed." They see the very reasons others are leaving. The number of deaths factored into those leaving must be climbing. But nobody is there to take their place.
slimboyfat, that is how I see it. It's just too much- money problems, reductions in printing, drastic doctrine changes that seem driven by the calendar, and telling members to follow directions even if they seem unwise. Cart witnessing will demonstrate to the average JW just sitting there how nobody wants that crap.
TheOldHippie, I said it was my opinion. That was clear. And what i meant by not "having" the numbers was that I read much of it, but will not be trying to tabulate, gather, compute from those numbers. Your opinion and sincere look at the numbers is more than welcome. This is a discussion forum and I am just discussing, not closing down Watchtower.
Dozy, from my reading they retained a majority of the pre-1975 growth for several decades. They started growing again from the field eventually because of the cold war, Iran, the first Gulf War, gas prices, etc. etc. .....added to the idea that the end must really now be that much more imminent. Members who were inactive or barely active still fell for the "1914 Generation" and the idea that it was coming in the "20th century." Even my mother was sure that the story about the time between Eve's creation and Adam's creation was a valid excuse for 1975. (By the way, that can still barely fit chronology, but it's getting thin.) These things kept them hanging in there.
But the 1995 disconnect on "this generation" and the flip flops ever since, the young GB members, the 100-years of Jesus' presence- all this has taken it's toll and the internet has highlighted it well.
i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .
org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.
instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.
Continue page 4 replies:
Beth Sarim, I believe Memorial attendance has been down for one year before, so that's not quite enough to run with. But I do believe they are stacked up with evidence of a tipping point, memorial attendance not climbing being one of the many things.
Keep in mind that inactive and barely active and "Bible" students and family and coworkers come to the Memorial. It takes a whole bunch of new Memorial attendees to get a few studies out of it. Someone is not coming- be it inactive ones or the family and coworkers of JW's. I imagine that hardly any slightly interested ones from the field recruiting come to the Memorial, at least not in my experience. If the most recent growth was in keeping elderly JW's active and getting youths baptized, they were already attending the Memorial. So this one year down could be significant in this case. It doesn't indicate a bunch of people leaving, but it says that they may not be getting newbies.
never a jw, wonderful thoughts- The impetus ..... is wearing out rather fast. Indeed. Older ones have waited and waited and waited and....... for Armageddon. Young ones are not bothering.
Dunedain, I see a steady stream coming in here. It seemed to rise a bit higher earlier in 2015, maybe awhile after the famous "spanks" talk.
i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .
org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.
instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.
Start page 4 replies:
berrygerry, that might be a better way to look at it. -The 15-minute report rule, and the infant baptism, have been used up.
There are not enough young ones and old ones to bolster the publisher numbers anymore.
