Posts by OnTheWayOut

91

Science Will Never Contradict The Bible

by Perry in

so claims nuclear physicist

OnTheWayOut

I am sure this is already covered by these intelligent people, but I don't have the ability at this moment to read through it all, so here goes:

Primitive goat herders from the bronze age wrote that God created the plant life before the stars and sun. That's kind of hard for modern science to accept, knowing how plants operate. And we would have to suspend our understanding of what would keep the plants way above absolute zero temperature if they were on an earth that had no sun until tomorrow. Further, he spends a day on this tiny planet creating life in plants, but another equal day creating massive stars by the gazillions. That would be like spending a day creating a molecule, and another equal day creating a massive star. The goat herders thought the lights in the sky were small things. That's why Genesis says it that way.

Stars formed before planets. So which is it- Heavens including stars first, or the order of Genesis with the little tiny lights added to the vast heavens later?

That was just one argument. Hardcore Bible believers use a variety of logical fallacies, straw man arguments, and confirmation biases fueled by cognitive dissonance to maintain a childlike belief system that will allow for extreme re-inventing what Genesis says and means.

39

New GB video: Why Reduce the Number of Special Full-Time Servants?

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

watchtower released at tv.jw.org a new gb video with samuel f. herd, with the theme:.

why reduce the number of special full-time servants?.

it seems there is a reason to release this special message.. http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/vodstudio/pub-jwbrd_201511_4_video.

OnTheWayOut

"...we are confident that Jehovah is richly blessing the worldwide work. Also the financial support of our brothers has in no way diminished. In fact, we have even seen a fine increase in contributions since the May 2015 program on JW Broadcasting. However...........our expenses have greatly increased. ...........It was obvious to the Governing Body that we could not expect our brothers to continually increase their donations. We needed to reduce expenses."

I have to say, it has a huge ring of truth to it.

No, I don't mean he is laying it on the line, telling it like it is. I mean, the G.B. is telling a big portion of truth here. What is left out is some other "expenses" that have greatly increased. They could be legal problems and they could be recovery from bad investing.

And telling the truth is the best way to manipulate people.

There is also a subliminal undertone. "You are giving money, don't stop. We can't expect you to give more, but more is needed." You can feel that message hitting home as he concludes

"We have been overwhelmed by the positive willing spirit of all you dear brothers and sisters to make these adjustments a success. We have truly felt your wholehearted support. Therefore we now look to Jehovah to bless these adjustments....YADDA YADDA....understand our current situation......."

9

Bethelites being sent to Wallkill and Paterson

by Angelclare in

this is my first post but i've been lurking for some time.

ive just spoken to a friend of mine from my jw days who isnt aware that i no longer associate.

hes the coordinator of the body of elders in his congregation so i suppose he does know something of whats going on at the wt.

OnTheWayOut

I would gather that there is some deliberate misinformation from Brooklyn. Sure, some full-time Bethelites, maybe even a dozen or more, will go to other places. This would mostly be connected people in important assignments. The rest will be sent away- to wherever the hell "away" takes them. But to say the statement shows a kinder side of WTS. "We aren't sending them all to the salt mines, just most of them."

91

Science Will Never Contradict The Bible

by Perry in

so claims nuclear physicist

OnTheWayOut

Hey everyone, I am taking a break from it, but Perry posts these things because really wants to be woken up from his delusions, just like he and others were eventually awake about TTATT.

So while he dismisses your claims and makes more wild ones, keep helping him. Eventually, he will realize that the Bible version is totally incompatible with science and therefore with reality.

Don't let him get away with ignoring points or pretending he addressed them, just as his post at the bottom of page 5 does.

8

NEW LIGHT!!

by kairos in

**overlapping donations**.

yes.. that's a thing.

not new, of course.i just felt like shouting it from the housetop.. ( don't forget the worldwide work, friends... ).

OnTheWayOut

If ever (and I won't let it ever be) I am cornered into discussing things with the elders, no matter what they say about doctrine or beliefs or my course of action, I will reply:

"Well, that's subject to the overlap."

It will make as much sense as whatever they claim is subject to the overlap.

7

One possibility…?

by careful in

tornintwo's recent topic spurred me finally to post an idea i've been thinking about.

i don't see the gb as being financially greedy.

yes, they enjoy numerous perks like having their physical needs met by servants, jetting around the planet, living in a greater degree of comfort than fellow bethelites, getting frequent and sometimes expensive gifts from the r&f, etc.

OnTheWayOut

They could be simpletons that lost millions. The mentality that it takes money to make money used to go so far as to suggest that investing lots of money was easier and that the stock market was a no-brainer. Then that wasn't so and it was still thought that real estate was a no-brainer.

It was very simple to gambling at the roulette wheel. When you lose, you double down. Eventually, you will win and make it all back. That sounds great, but it doesn't work out that way unless you have endless money and doubling down had no house-limit. Even then, if you think the odds of "black" coming up on the next spin increases because it was red or green (ZERO and Double ZERO) so many times, you are totally wrong.

Anyway, they are selling real estate after the great drop of 2008. They could have made a real killing in 2000 on those hot properties. They stayed in print too long. Print is dying. They build new Headquarters instead of just moving to Patterson or Wallkill. They seemed to assume they would be constantly expanding personnel and suddenly switch.

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

OnTheWayOut

....or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?

I have to believe that any group that moves as much money as Watchtower- be it religious, political, or commercial- has those that rake off funds selfishly. I would even imagine that WTS honchos thinks it's important to grease the wheels with their lawyers, accountants, suppliers of various things. And I imagine most of the people raking the funds feel they deserve it.

I don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

I don't either. The GB and virtually everyone came up the ranks of pioneers, having very little along the way. They don't need millions to feel they have made it to the top. And they can look at the likes of Ray Franz- they would have nothing if they walked away or blew any whistles, and they probably can't write a book as good as his.

they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving Bentleys.

But don't get too sure of that. They may typically fly at a higher class and stay at upper class hotels. And if you are a GB member that wants a great vacation, give a talk at the convention in Honolulu. And while Rutherford's day of big Cadillacs are gone, who needs a permanent driver when the locals will pick you up for free in a nice SUV?

I suspect it's more of a power trip for them than a wealth trip. The thought of 8million people hanging on your every word must be enticing for them, and they probably believe their own hype that they are gods chosen ones, christs brothers etc... Ray Franz never mentioned financial issues in his books and I would have thought he had the perfect opportunity to highlight any corruption of that type.

They definitely are on that power trip. They have plastered themselves all over their jw. tv. And the finances today could be completely different from back then. If there is any actual corruption in finances, I don't imagine the GB initiated it and may be kept in the dark.

14

Changing meanings of words: "Brother" and "Sister".

by Open mind in

ever notice how most jws use the titles "brother" and "sister"?

in my experience, 99% of the time it was not a term of endearment.

it was actually a term of formality very much like "mister", "mrs.", "miss" or "ms.".

OnTheWayOut

Part of why I thrived for quite awhile as a JW was because the ones I was surrounded by were sincere and sounded like they were truly "brothers and sisters." They used the term because the cult said so, but I only used it from the platform. There were a few elderly ones I used it all the time with, out of respect.

It was probably easier for me because I was a young adult male who converted to JW. I could get away with calling the elders Steve or John.

19

What if moving the world headquarters of the Watchtower is just a cover-up?

by WireRider in

what better way to scam a few hundred million off the top?

with all the conversations, and truly distractions, of shortfalls and money problems - sell off about 1.2 billion of highly valued, tax exempt, property in brooklyn ny and build an ehhh 500 million property upstate.

what happened to the missing 700 million?

OnTheWayOut

Let me add:

I remember one congregation easily voting "Yes" to $10,000 in improvements to the property which did not need to be done- cracks in the parking lot pavement made it "difficult" to remove snow, and a whole new parking lot was laid. Wrought-iron fences replaced when they could be repaired.

This was easy for the elders to support because "It's not OUR money." One other elder (besides me) who was against these expenditures asked if the others would shell out that much money on their own home if they thought they could do things a cheaper way. But the answer was "Well, it's NOT my own home."

There is a prevailing attitude among the elders that certainly must be the same at the Headquarters level- "Spend the money, it's not ours. We'll get more." Hell, they probably really do expect that Jehovah will bless their expenditures.

19

What if moving the world headquarters of the Watchtower is just a cover-up?

by WireRider in

what better way to scam a few hundred million off the top?

with all the conversations, and truly distractions, of shortfalls and money problems - sell off about 1.2 billion of highly valued, tax exempt, property in brooklyn ny and build an ehhh 500 million property upstate.

what happened to the missing 700 million?

OnTheWayOut

They are obviously skimming off the top for their well-connected suppliers- builders, accountants, lawyers, realtors, etc. They are obviously building nicer headquarters than they need. I mean, they could have sold all the Brooklyn properties and moved to existing New York state properties. If they are going to become a web religion, they could run it from one building.

I don't believe there is a false money problem, though. I think it's deeper than they let on. We do not get to hear about the pedo-lawsuits where a gag order was in place. We know that voluntary donations from non-Witnesses for the literature has always been tough to even ask for, let alone collect. We know that the expectation upon the members paying for the literature has been met poorly all along. We know that assemblies/conventions have been their cash-cows but we don't know if they have not kept up with the organization's money woes in other areas.

The thing with members is that they always feel that they give their time, so they only give so much money. I mean- straight up, if the Mormons encourage education and a male member earns $70,000 (USA) a year for his family, he gives his total yearly tithe of $7,000 and probably gives time also. Can you imagine a Witness anywhere giving that amount of money? If they drop $100 a month in the congregation box, $100 in the box at the Assembly Hall (both waaay high from what I have seen in years past) then they contribute only $1,500 a year.