Posts by OnTheWayOut

23

Faith and Lies.

by sparrowdown in

if you were hooked up to a polygraph machine when you were still an asleep, kool-aid drinking dub and asked if you agree 100% with every single wt teaching (asked as individual questions and collectively), would you have "passed" with no signs of deception?.

i know, i definitely would not have "passed" such an interegation.

i would have tripped up on questions about blood, dfing and non jws being marked for destruction just to name a few.

OnTheWayOut

I converted to JW as a young adult in his 20's, but was exposed to it from a JW mother while growing up. It is the only religion I knew. Dramatic circumstances in my life allowed me to completely embrace the JW lifestyle and doctrines. There was a chance of me waking up early as a study when I accompanied the brother studying with me on a call. The guy asked about storing up your own blood for a surgery and I could see nothing wrong with that, but then the elder tore into it about how you would have to obey the scriptures that say to pour it on the ground. I questioned him later about the literalness of that and trying to compare it to allowing your blood to be drawn for testing purposes. I wasn't quite satisfied with the answers, but I learned to stuff my problems down deep.

For the first 7 years I was in deep, never questioning anything the society said. Then 1995 came. Some serious pioneers who read ahead in the magazines and break out all the references asked me about that major change to "generation." I was a brand new elder and I had to break out all the stuff, because I hadn't been doing all that. I was rather disturbed by the change. I asked other elders about it and one comment sticks out from a much older brother. "They change things sometimes."

So my disagreement with them started growing. Before that, I already realized the double standard of getting connected people/families out of trouble where others wouldn't get the same. I already was telling people not to tell the elders everything, even though I was an elder, but to stop doing whatever and pray to Jehovah.

So 8 years in, I would not have passed the polygraph. And it got worse each and every year after that.

What it could say about you is that you were fully believing that you must check it out for yourself and verify truth vs. lies. It's what the Bereans were told. You were not just going with blind obedience. But being in a deceptive mind-control cult, it was sometimes difficult to know what to do, what to believe.

18

Partaking of emblems

by sloppyjoe2 in

jw
friends

this year will be my first for by going to the memorial.

i will get asked by my parents how i can deny jesus even if i don't believe the end is close.

my thoughts on this are as follows, bear in mind saying it's all make believe is not an option.. i think that jesus intended for everyone to eat the bread and drink the wine.

OnTheWayOut

Any argument that includes "...so I am not going" leaves room for JW's to argue about it.

All they know is that you have to go, you have to go, you have to go. Countering with anything whatsoever makes no sense to them. So throw out your excuse and be done.

I thought I might get invited this year, as they are supposed to make some huge effort to invite former attendees back. (I am not DF'ed or DA'ed, just totally inactive.)

Well, so far I have not been invited. GOOD. No need for an excuse.

But if I do need an excuse, while it is not true I will say it anyway:
"What day? Oh, you all should have let me know sooner. I can't go. I have tickets for an AC/DC concert that evening. If only you had invited me sooner."

(Actually, JRK and I are going the Sunday before the Memorial, but they don't need to know that.)

See, it just doesn't matter what excuse you give them. It won't be good enough anyway.

36

The "most honest people" on earth....?

by stuckinarut2 in

have we noticed how often the society uses comments like this?.

"jehovah's witnesses are the most honest people...etc".

while it may be true that witnesses as a whole are decent, law abiding people, are they truely "honest" when the very foundation of beliefs are based on mistruths?.

OnTheWayOut

I think JW's are honest like slick lawyers are honest. They learn to withhold information and mislead people, but define "honest" as not directly telling a lie. Then they make exceptions to even that definition by making decisions about who deserves truthful information.

10

The Accounts Report or lack of one

by OnTheWayOut in

i am pretty sure it's still the same since i stopped attending almost 10 years ago, but this is something to think about:.

at the kingdom hall, there's an accounts report.

they say they gathered in an exact amount of money for both local expenses and worldwide work and that it exactly went to these exact expenses and this amount was sent to watchtower.

OnTheWayOut

Dark Knight, there were different deals in different places. But places with lots had parking included in the price. Other places had city garages that were not included in the price. But as a victim myself, I know that if Watchtower "sold" you a parking ticket for all three days, they were taking advantage of you at a set price for what was included at no cost for you. It's a famous scam from Tacoma that they got busted for doing because their contract said they could not charge for parking, but I was a victim in another place where it was never mentioned that the parking was included in the facility rental fee.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/66723/tacoma-dome-parking-scandal?page=1

Landy, I realize that kids didn't contribute, or didn't contribute much. Still, $80,000 seems kind of low unless it goes back to early 1980's or so. The point of this thread is that we really have no idea what they rake in at the "regional" level at all.

A big help here would be to know how ruthless Watchtower becomes in dealing with city officials trying to win their conventions to their arenas. Kickbacks and promises, demands for cooperation, stuff like that.

62

What Happens To You When You Die?

by minimus in

jw
friends

are our dead loved ones watching over us at all or are they really just gone now?

OnTheWayOut

As far as I know, no credible sources have verified anything to the living about what happens when we die.

No credible evidence that dead ones help or hurt living people. No credible evidence that there is an afterlife at all.

Even for those who are sure that there is a "God," there's no credible evidence that he expects something of us in life so that we can have a reward or avoid punishment in an afterlife. No credible evidence of contact with the living at all from the dead or from God or any source.

SO LIVE, DAMMIT!!! LIVE! Don't worry about what happens later. As far as I know, I will be gone.

10

The Accounts Report or lack of one

by OnTheWayOut in

i am pretty sure it's still the same since i stopped attending almost 10 years ago, but this is something to think about:.

at the kingdom hall, there's an accounts report.

they say they gathered in an exact amount of money for both local expenses and worldwide work and that it exactly went to these exact expenses and this amount was sent to watchtower.

OnTheWayOut

Beth Sarim, you probably mean it's disturbing to them. Thanks.

xelder, thanks. That seems low. Even $20 a head would be $100000. Even a long time ago, Bakersfield should have been hauling in more. Maybe it was the free aspect that changed things. And they had the old parking scam- charge them ahead of time to park in a free lot.

10

The Accounts Report or lack of one

by OnTheWayOut in

i am pretty sure it's still the same since i stopped attending almost 10 years ago, but this is something to think about:.

at the kingdom hall, there's an accounts report.

they say they gathered in an exact amount of money for both local expenses and worldwide work and that it exactly went to these exact expenses and this amount was sent to watchtower.

OnTheWayOut

The Listener, that is valuable info. They are careful and guarded. What I am wondering about is the total amount for such events and who know that. Even you don't remember, which suggests to me that you probably were not officially supposed to know.

D.O.C., they are putting themselves into a corner as far as money goes. They squeeze the main contributors so much that the contributors stop giving. Even if they do give more in one place, say at the Circuit Assembly, then they give less at the other places- the Kingdom Hall and the Regional Convention. Glad to hear of ones you know who are figuring it out.

Freeandclear, it seems that Watchtower doesn't even trust Jehovah to make sure it works out.

92

Only a few days ago I was entirely lost and without hope the rug was pulled out from under me

by elderess in

jw
friends

only a few days ago i was walking around the house in a mindless wander thinking if i needed to seek professional help.

then i got the courage to seek the comfort of complete strangers on the internet and found a world of support here on this website.

thank you simon and whoever else has made this website possible.

OnTheWayOut

Elderess, this is an awesome post. You shared with your husband and he said "Me too." I have met a few others that has a similar experience. While it didn't work out for me with my wife that way, I am still overjoyed to read when that happens. I am more hopeful for the future with my wife also.

And it sounds like your "fade" will be a fast one. I did that. Keep moving forward with your plans- no need to drag things out for years.

As far as your adult children go, you can start researching books about cults and videos on youtube and all that stuff. It may help, it may not. The biggest help to your children will be letting them see your own decisions and freedoms.

Good luck, a toast to you.

10

The Accounts Report or lack of one

by OnTheWayOut in

i am pretty sure it's still the same since i stopped attending almost 10 years ago, but this is something to think about:.

at the kingdom hall, there's an accounts report.

they say they gathered in an exact amount of money for both local expenses and worldwide work and that it exactly went to these exact expenses and this amount was sent to watchtower.

OnTheWayOut

I am pretty sure it's still the same since I stopped attending almost 10 years ago, but this is something to think about:

At the Kingdom Hall, there's an accounts report. They say they gathered in an exact amount of money for both local expenses and worldwide work and that it exactly went to these exact expenses and this amount was sent to Watchtower. Watchtower will acknowledge exact amounts in a letter. At all times, members can know what the finances are. A member can look on the information board for some of that information. An audit is done every 3 months (I believe) where some elder double checks the accounts servant. Money is always collected by two people (to keep them honest).

At the circuit level, the members hear these numbers, but it's a skewed report. They summarize "expenses" as just that- no idea where that money went. They announce a "deficit at this time" no matter what, before the program is over so that people will put more into the boxes. But the members do hear what the status of the funds were for the circuit before this assembly and know how much money was supposedly needed by Watchtower to put on this assembly. Granted, elders hear more of the details of gathered money and expenses. But even they don't know how Watchtower calculates the "per publisher" cost for assemblies, because it's not a true cost but rather an invented number to maximize profits and ensure that they can report the "deficit at this time." They have a vote on what to do with the surplus that they know will exist, and even though they don't stray from marching orders on what to do with it, they are aware of what that amount was and that it left the building. The elder who figures out how much money was taken in has someone double check his numbers.

So that's bad enough. But at least the numbers are said, and as difficult as it may be to figure out, a person COULD see where the money is coming and going if he took notes and compared them from one circuit assembly to the next.

But at the District Convention (now Regional Convention), the members never ever hear how much money was gathered and where it went. There is not even a skewed misleading report. We are told absolutely nothing. I am sure the bean counters have people behind them double checking, so someone knows how much came in. When those sisters bring their boxes into the accounting room, there's plenty of double checking and security. We can be sure all the boxes and all their contents get into that room. But other than the counters who combine the totals and people from "the branch," nobody is told how much was gathered and how it will be spent nor the cost of using the stadium or auditorium- not the members and not the elders. There isn't even an invented "per publisher" cost for the facility, and the actual cost for renting a place could easily be shared, but NO! There is no accounts report.

13

Cuban Cigars

by OnTheWayOut in

so mrs. otwo and i see something on television about cuban cigars.

she asks me if they are allowed into the united states.

i told her that i believe there is a softening of the rules, but they are still difficult to get.

OnTheWayOut

Thanks undercover, that seems to be the case with mine also.