What evidence is there for a biblical jesus?

by Touchofgrey in

is there any independently verified evidence that a miracle worker called jesus existed and did the things that the bible said he did?.

the four gospels were written by unknown authors many decades after the so called events, so can't be considered as eyewitness accounts.

i think that there may have been a apocalyptic preacher who was executed by the romans and the story evolved from their.

OnTheWayOut

Is there any independently verified evidence that a miracle worker called jesus existed and did the things that the bible said he did?

No.
How could there be?

7

Materialistic and Soon

by OnTheWayOut in

i was reading a bart ehrman book, .

armageddon: what the bible really says about the end.

no, i won't bore you with complicated various theories i was reading.

Armageddon: What the Bible Really Says about the End

NO, I won't bore you with complicated various theories I was reading. But two things I picked up on were that many groups' theology, including JW's, has a materialistic future in mind. JW's imagine paradise, living in nice mansions left empty when Deniers were destroyed.

The other thing I noticed was how the idea of the end being "soon" has always had to morph as time marched on.

The apostles supposedly expected all these things in their lifetime. Augustine converted because the end was soon. Coincidentally, Napoleon attacked the Vatican when it was imminently soon expected, similar to World War breaking out when CTRussell expected the end soon...after other disappointments.

Heck, I became a JW because Jehovah called me when it was extremely soon in 1988, as the Generation was very old.

I think that's wearing out soon.

23

Armageddon Car

by OnTheWayOut in

how many of you bought a nice sedan, suv, or even a minivan back in the days that you described as your "armageddon car" that you would care for and it would last until the end arrived?.

i was driving a 1974 plymouth volare wagon in 1992 when i managed to get an 8-year old buick century.

it was low mileage and had a very luxurious interior.

OnTheWayOut

Good responses here. Many Armageddon cars. Thanks all.

11

Children dumped at ministry group

by Mikejw in

jw
friends

it’s not right for children to be forced to come to ministry groups on their own without their parents.

the parents just expect others to look after them.. we have this happening at our group all the time.

early teens and even younger.. the parents just want them out of the house for a bit and put the burden on others to look after them and get them home safely.. there should be an announcement or something that youths need to be accompanied by a responsible adult and not just dumped at the group on their own.. who is supposed to look after them?.

OnTheWayOut

I never had children dropped into the service group unless someone already knew they would be responsible for them. Different ways in different congregations.

We did have mother with children in tow, expecting that someone would illegally put then in their car/minivan without child seats. I told those parents we could walk, but I wouldn't assign them to a car group. They weren't happy in the winter, but I was walking too, so I was covered.

23

Armageddon Car

by OnTheWayOut in

how many of you bought a nice sedan, suv, or even a minivan back in the days that you described as your "armageddon car" that you would care for and it would last until the end arrived?.

i was driving a 1974 plymouth volare wagon in 1992 when i managed to get an 8-year old buick century.

it was low mileage and had a very luxurious interior.

OnTheWayOut

How many of you bought a nice sedan, SUV, or even a minivan back in the days that you described as your "Armageddon car" that you would care for and it would last until the end arrived?

I was driving a 1974 Plymouth Volare Wagon in 1992 when I managed to get an 8-year old Buick Century. It was low mileage and had a very luxurious interior. The only reason I could afford it was that it had horrible pain "cancer," flaking of its burgundy color all over, especially the hood.

When I got that Buick in 1992, there were so many that asked if it was my Armageddon car. It was just a car. It's long gone now, as most others' Armageddon cars are gone now.

86

Prediction: no more changes for a long while

by slimboyfat in

i’ve noticed a pattern where things don’t go the way i expect them to go and/or whenever i realise there is a trend and, i mentally adjust for the idea that the trend will continue, the trend stops in its tracks.

so on that basis, and given many people, including myself, and active jws, have been asking ‘what changes will the governing body make next?’ perhaps the (disappointing) answer is: ‘nothing much for a while to come’.

maybe they’ve made the changes they want for now, and will wait a while and see how it’s received.

OnTheWayOut

ThomasMore
I don’t actually believe WTC has a 10 year plan. Most of the decision makers don’t have a 10 day plan.

Yeah, I do believe they had a "TEN" year plan at first. But Norway and France and maybe other countries going to shut down Watchtower in their country has changed that plan and made it rather urgent. It could be a 2 year plan now.

But you are probably right that it never really was such a long-term changes plan.

86

Prediction: no more changes for a long while

by slimboyfat in

i’ve noticed a pattern where things don’t go the way i expect them to go and/or whenever i realise there is a trend and, i mentally adjust for the idea that the trend will continue, the trend stops in its tracks.

so on that basis, and given many people, including myself, and active jws, have been asking ‘what changes will the governing body make next?’ perhaps the (disappointing) answer is: ‘nothing much for a while to come’.

maybe they’ve made the changes they want for now, and will wait a while and see how it’s received.

OnTheWayOut

LongHairGal asks me:

ON THE WAY OUT:
So, I guess you’ve seen all the recent changes in the JW religion.

What did you think about the one about the R&F no longer needing to count time or submit a slip? Naturally, this was never a biblical teaching. However, I was judged over this hourly time counting because I worked.. It made me positively ill to see this change and I was so right that I never listened to the religion!

I seem to remember reading that the 1995 Generation change got you to realize you needed a decent job for retirement benefits.

The point is that many thousands of Witnesses everywhere have reached retirement age totally unprepared because they spent time in the ministry.. Even those who didn’t get pioneer hours still wasted time that could have been spent in a decent job that would provide for them.. Instead, they were led to believe Armageddon would have come to ‘save’ them.

Meanwhile, the religion just did away with this teaching with the stroke of a pen!

Yes, the 1995 Generation change got me to realize I needed a decent job for retirement benefits. Many will wake up with every change at Watchtower, but so many waking are older and will remain PIMO because they are older and set in their WT ways or don't want to lose friends and family.

They may be pissed off, but only a handful will leave over such things as doing away with counting time. So many left in the past because of the need to count time. Changes always cause some problems.

19

I think I know what the GB is doing

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

read:.

but if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘my master is delaying,’b 49 and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards.

hmm... let's see is anyone on the governing body a strict master and a drunkard?

OnTheWayOut

The lawyers and accountants are telling the Govering Body members to lighten up on rules that cause people to leave, or else the lawyers and accountants will declare the GB to be the evil slave.

I am sure they didn't think it through, but they are saying they were led astray when Ray Franz happened. But it will all be declared as necessary to remove the weeds until the harvest time is so close that we now need to be kinder and show mercy, letting Jehovah decide which are now weeds.

86

Prediction: no more changes for a long while

by slimboyfat in

i’ve noticed a pattern where things don’t go the way i expect them to go and/or whenever i realise there is a trend and, i mentally adjust for the idea that the trend will continue, the trend stops in its tracks.

so on that basis, and given many people, including myself, and active jws, have been asking ‘what changes will the governing body make next?’ perhaps the (disappointing) answer is: ‘nothing much for a while to come’.

maybe they’ve made the changes they want for now, and will wait a while and see how it’s received.

OnTheWayOut

I have only read the opening post, not the comments. So maybe y'all got it covered.

I have been away from doctrine and changes of any kind, lost interest- a cult is a cult regardless of whether the anointed will die before Armageddon or not or if members can grow a beard. But changes drew me back concerning all the kinder, gentler rules.

What I read and see from YouTube whistle blowers is to keep expecting big changes. Stat tuned for blood doctrine drop, birthday drop. Maybe many others to retain people, combat the Norway problem.

17

"Everyone Wants To Leave"

by NotFormer in

a thread about steve hassan re-emerged and got me looking him up.

his wikipedia entry had a point under "criticism" that there is an underlying assumption in his approach that all members of high control groups ultimately want to leave*.. while it is generally believed that there are a lot of pimos still attending, doing field service and giving lip service to the wt, i doubt that everyone within the congregations want to get out.

it's not always internally and logically consistent, but it's been around long enough for enough workarounds to make it tolerable to emerge.. what do you think?

OnTheWayOut

I am the exception to many rules, and I suspect so many of you are also.

There are some ready to leave if it were not for a family member or several of them. There are PIMO members waiting for "something." There are young ones ready to get away at adulthood.

But so many love the easing of rules because they had no intention of leaving. They are trapped in a mindset. My mother wants to see her children who passed away and will probably never give leaving a thought. My wife just "knows" it's the truth and rejects any efforts I used to make (still occasionally make) to look at what's wrong in Watchtower.

OnTheWayOut

Posts by OnTheWayOut

Armageddon: What the Bible Really Says about the End