Posts by OnTheWayOut

39

Trinity...cross...Does it matter?

by NikL in

jw
friends

i've been thinking about this for a while.. did jesus diee on a cross?

does it really matter?

it doesn't change anything that i can see.. is god a trinity?

OnTheWayOut

What do you think?

We haven't even established that a man, let alone "god incarnate" existed at all. And if he did, whether a story about his death and "crucifixion," written long long after his existence was anything close to true. Even if such a man existed and died in such a way, did he have "commands" for us, and should we actually obey such commands? Why?

I think even saying "we will never have the complete picture of spiritual things as long as we are physical beings" indicates that you are a person enjoying the mythical beliefs that faith delivers about living past death. When people enjoy such mythical beliefs, details like what cave, what shroud, what commands, what wooden post, yadda yadda all become very important. But for those that don't believe in Santa Claus, we don't need to know if Rudolf will be needed this year.

23

The goal in all this 1918/1919 change?

by careful in

as some have recently posted here, there does seem to be a shift going on in their self-interpretation(s) of what happened in 1918 and 1919. if we can look past all the details that emphasize the poor thinking and poor wording (or contradictions/just plain craziness/insignificance) of their message, something bigger seems to be afoot.

they appear to be attempting to redefine the meanings for some "prophetic" scriptures in light of themselves.

1. they are trying to somehow fill the void they have themselves created from their rejecting freddie franz's (ff) type–anti-type postulations.

OnTheWayOut

All changes are calendar and/or money driven.

Cult members need to be calendar driven in order to stay in cult mode- worried about impending DOOMSDAY.

40

What if Fred Franz had never existed?

by Magnum in

what if fred franz had never existed?.

those of you who weren’t around in the days when he was the oracle of jwdom or who at least aren’t familiar with the deeper publications he was responsible for probably won’t be able to comprehend the significance of the question.

i believe he influenced jwdom greatly, and the whole feel of jwdom would have been different without him.. during the 60’s, 70’s, & 80’s (not sure about 50’s), he was considered to be almost superhuman by some (a lot?

OnTheWayOut

I typed a long answer about this, but deleted it. It didn't happen, so my speculations are just that.

It seems all these cults need a crazy oracle at one point. Mormons had Joseph Smith, but not really any good ones after that. Scientology had L. Ron Hubbard, but not really any good ones after that. Watchtower had C.T. Russell, then tried to extend their crazy oracle by replacing him with Freddy and his crazy predictions.

So they probably would have found someone else with similar crazy talk.

But then, yeah- no Ray Franz on the GB, no CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE. Who's to say what the nephew of the different oracle would have been like in aiding or hurting the cause?

43

2520-607 = 1913

by schnell in

jw
friends

i love math, i love calendars, and somehow, this always gets me.. 2520 - 607 = 1913. not 1914.. 2520 - 606 = 1914. from what i understand, russell realized this.

he had previously used 606 bc, of course, but then he switched it to 607 bc.

i know there was something about no zero year, so it actually should be less one, correct?.

OnTheWayOut

From Year 607 BCE to 1 CE is 607 years
From Year 1 CE to 1914 CE is 1913 years
-----------------

Together adds up to 2520 years

That's their simplified math. But really, work back from whatever date you want and you can come up with whatever Bible math rule you want to create a cult date of significance. Look at 1975. All fuzzy math from the Bible and cult people applying it anyway that suits them. I find it hard to believe they forgot at one point that there was no year ZERO. It's almost like they don't really have "spirit-direction" and are just making shit up.

15

Religion...is regarded by the rulers as useful

by flipper in

jw
friends

lucius annaeus seneca, roman statesman, 4bc - 65ad: "religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.".

this comes to mind as trump has been throwing the word "god" around.

there are a lot of outwardly religious people in this government.. benjamin franklin: "the way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason.".

OnTheWayOut

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.

Robert A. Heinlein

23

No Longer a JW Expert But Starting to Figure Out Life

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

consider this an update for those that remember me here.... when i left in 2006, it started a 10 year journey into a new phase.

no more "safety".

some people want to be their own person.

OnTheWayOut

Very well said.

45

New light in this weeks WT?

by Indian Larry in

anybody have any ideas where they are going with the "new light" they have been pushing last week and this week?

for instance in this weeks study article one section reads:.

in years gone by, we believed that jehovah became displeased with his people because they did not have a zealous share in the preaching work during world war i. we concluded that for this reason, jehovah allowed babylon the great to take them captive for a short time.

OnTheWayOut

Gobble-dee-gook, YADDA YADDA

It sounds like, "We had a negative outlook but later things were more positive than we realized."

That sets them up for consolidating congregations, selling off properties, appearing to be on the decline, but then saying that things will clear up later to show that they were really doing fine.

16

A Perfect Life Isn't Worth Living?

by Sorry in

think of your favorite tv shows.

what do they all have in common?

the answer is they revolve around some type of problem or conflict.

OnTheWayOut

Smiddy: OTWO remember competition is frowned on and a big no-no , dress codes are strictly controlled , imagine a sister or brother designing their own clothes in the new system it would be as bad as the Muslim nations of today you would have the religious police patrolling everywhere ."You cant wear that ?"

That's a JW-paradise or one ruled by some religious entity. I am not specifically talking of a religious dictatorship but of a place of never dying. It isn't real anyway, so my speculation is a fantasy just as your description of living forever where so much is frowned upon is fantasy.

25

If the Org. confessed they were not God's org. Would you still be there and was that the main reason you stayed

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

i know you know who i am by now...the one that forgets to use paragraphs...anyway, all over all the jw sites (not jw.org).

it's been asked if you knew this or that why did you stay...it's been discussed how no matter what you hit the friends with, failed dated, new lights, pedophiles, etc, yet they stay and you can't reason with them....so what i've come up with is that most stay because they feel it's god's org.

and they were chosen in place of the jews.

OnTheWayOut

I had my doubts about the organization for a decade before I left. I stayed because I was sure God put me there, that it was God's organization.

No way I would have stayed if they admitted the truth. Same for most JW's, even hardcore ones.

17

Mr Trump looked in the Bible to see what's God view on "Torture"

by James Mixon in

guess what, first book of the bible genesis 3:16 and he found other books that condones torture, exodus 7:3, numbers 31:17,18 and many more in that book.

so trump thought i have god's blessing..

OnTheWayOut

You can find anything in the Bible.

Yeah, Donald gave me a weird vibe. He's still convincing the lowest-denominator common Americans that the U.S. needs to become harsher, more ruthless. He's telling us that waterboarding and torture are better than what happens when we don't do that. He had experts tell him that torture is effective. (Bullshit, by the way.)

Still, even under liberal leadership, the stuff the military does has been going on nonstop. Maybe dragging it out of Guantanamo Bay and the middle east and out into the open would cause people to see that torture is wrong and stripping humans of their rights without trial is wrong.

Donald also says that ending all the shootings in Chicago is easy. He told O'Reilly he could do it in one week. So I have deep concerns for the military establishment that Trump may turn the United States into once he figures out executive orders are very similar to the expedited powers that the German Parliament gave to Hitler.