news bulletin: fessler versus watchtower – opening statements and motions in jehovah’s witness child abuse trial – day 1. .
posted on february 12, 2017. city hall, philadelphia, pennsylvania.
on a cold philadelphia morning the 7th of february, 2017, stephanie fessler walked into the court of common pleas of pennsylvania, first judicial district, civil trial division.
I don't know what the elders were told, but it should become clear whether they violated a law about the duty to report.
With a judge ready to allow a witness in the punitive portion, I imagine the judge already knows whether the law was violated.
Thanks for reporting to us, Barb.
first, i've been out of the organization for 20 years this very year!
i was baptized in 1979 and attended one of the lancaster ohio congregations.
realizing i was gay, i left and after being in the columbus gay community for 6 months, decided bar hopping and cruising was not my cup o' tea.i decided to return in late '90 and was reinstated in '91.
So being gay had little to do with your leaving the final time.
Similarly, I left because I discovered it's not "the truth." So congratulations on your own discovery. If I had not left already, I would have laughed out loud during the Watchtower study that introduced the "overlap generation" and stormed out shouting "On that teaching, I am outta here."
Thanks for sharing, enjoy the forum. I look forward to your inputs.
many interpret serpent in the garden of eden as the satan hence miss the whole point because satan himself does not exist.
he is a fictional character [for example, in the temptation account, satan is shown as reflecting the erroneous belief of ancient time that shape of earth is flat, thus taking jesus to the top of “a very high mountain” and showed him “all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.” (mathew 4:8, 9) the fact that jesus did not correct the mistaken view of satan shows the account of temptation is allegorical.
further, jesus knew that satan was only a personification of evil (mathew 16:23; john 6:70) and categorically declared that “all evil thoughts proceed from one’s heart,” not from satan.
Wait wait wait wait.
From what I read here, you say that the Garden of Eden, Eve, the story about the snake- all that is true?
....but the snake wasn't Satan?
.....or are the whole story and the characters in it also fictions as allegories?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sin is a religious term. Sin was created by religion to make people feel guilty, then they can contribute to religion monetarily or otherwise to appease their guilt.
People do wrong/bad things for self interest or other strange reasons. But it's only sin when religion gets involved.
some people like to believe in something others believe in nothing; so in what location did the substance that expanded into the time/space universe exist before the big bang?
where did the energy that caused the big band come from?
how did the substance that became the big bang change from being inert and sterile and come to life to having the properties and drive that it does?
Even if science could provide the answers to where the matter/energy came from before our universe existed, I get that our limited minds would not process that well and we would still be hung up on wanting a simple explanation.
Regardless of where you are on your questions, putting God into the equation does not eliminate the problem.
Where did "god" come from? How did this "god" come to life to having the properties and drive that it has? Did "god" simply always exist? How? Then why can't matter/energy have always existed? It's just as difficult to answer with or without a god.
ok so there's no other jws in earshot and your on the ministry, the hh comes to the door, what would you say to them about jws if you could?.
would you explain why your there when you don't want to be?.
would you warn them about it being a cult?.
If I found myself going through the motions of "recruiting" and was working the doors alone, I wouldn't even ring the bell. "Nobody answered at all my doors." Should someone open the door on me, I would not tell a stranger that I am in a cult. I would simply say "We are leaving this religious material, would you like a copy?" The end.
If anyone takes it, I would not write them down as a future "return visit." I would simply write a couple of return visits on my time slip every month even though I never made any of them.
hi everyone, i've just registered and thought i might introduce myself and tell my experience.
my name's raquel.. i was born into a jw family.
i started leading a double life around 14y/o and got caught drinking by another sister when i was 15 and saw that as my opportunity to quit the panthomime and stopped going to the meetings.
Congratulations on waking up. There are many who left the JW's and did not learn that they are not "the truth" so you are doing great. Great to shake off that guilt, huh? As far as what you feel, it's like the stages of grief- you will go through various emotions depending on situations and things that trigger thoughts like birthdays and holidays or when you see JW's on the street. You just allow yourself to go through those emotions, it's okay.
I am sober today, taking things day-by-day. I fell off that wagon a couple of times when I found out about the lies in Watchtower, but I kept getting back on board with my sobriety. Strength to you.
i'm a 4th generation jw.
i started to realize it wasn't the truth over 2 years ago in late october/early november 2014. i don't know how exactly it happened.
i remember i had just heard about confirmation bias, and it hit me: i realized that i would be guilty of confirmation bias if i didn't look at the other side.
I understand that its up to my family to decide whether they associate with me or not, but I can't blame them because they are also victims. I blame it on the religion itself, the idea that holds them captive.
I share that thought. But you are in a really tough place. A good counselor would tell you that you need to be yourself, but they don't fully understand Jehovah's Witnesses. Being gay or bi would be a huge thing to hide, if that's what you should choose. I faded from Jehovah's Witnesses for the sake of a few family members, but I don't hide that I don't go to meetings anymore. I do have life choices to hide, but they are pretty minor- things like celebrating birthdays and holidays with non-JW's. And I am free enough to do those things without going through much to "hide" it.
Anyway, please please please continue to plan for college as you said. Things that you know are not wrong, and you know are not disfellowshipping offenses- get your family used to the idea that you are going to do those things when it is important to you. Let things like college be a way to open conversations with your family. Good luck.
so i was checking out the website to see what the february broadcast was all about before i watched it with my jw wife.. on the front page was this video.... https://tv.jw.org/#en/video/vodbible/pub-jwbai_201607_1_video.
i watched it and pretended i had never been a jw.. if you pretend you don't understand their particular language it makes for a interesting (if not vague) watch.. btw i've seen several of the actors before.
jw version of movie stars?
"you are being watched!"
I cannot resist. God is like the internet-famous mythical Ceiling Cat.
so i was checking out the website to see what the february broadcast was all about before i watched it with my jw wife.. on the front page was this video.... https://tv.jw.org/#en/video/vodbible/pub-jwbai_201607_1_video.
i watched it and pretended i had never been a jw.. if you pretend you don't understand their particular language it makes for a interesting (if not vague) watch.. btw i've seen several of the actors before.
jw version of movie stars?
He had a normal crush and normal desires for someone his age, but a heavy indoctrination process made him feel guilty. If he were able to come forth to his parents with his normal crush and normal desires instead of making them "secrets of the heart," everything could have turned out just fine.
His indoctrination reinforced by prayer allowed him to think that Jehovah gave him the strength to do what the cult has trained him to do.
I can imagine the elders asking about the "worldly" girl and, after looking at her picture or having his description of her, getting specific details about their activity so that they can decide whether or not he needs a judicial action, plus to get their jollies off.
at the meeting today, we were reading the watchtower and this elder apologetically said to such a degree in regards to romans 5:12 that "we humans are not worthy of any mercy from jehovah.
we shouldn't even have free will because we can't possibly do anything good enough to please jehovah.
we don't even deserve life because of sin.
life is to short:
.....It has always seemed like God set us up to fail.
In all honestly why would God do this to us if he was a God of love. He has the power to stop all the suffering of all people on this planet .....
I have to agree and add.
Wiki says "The Brothers Karamazov is a passionate philosophical novel set in 19th-century Russia, that enters deeply into the ethical debates of God, free will, and morality. "
I agree with the idea from this book that if God is teaching us a lesson or testing us or whatever, the price is too high. When children are born to suffer or to die, the price is too high.
From other philosophies, I have thought about a god creating subjects to kneel and grovel for him, to wail and pray endlessly, to constantly claim "We're not worthy." (Sorry Wayne and Garth.) And then this creator gives his subjects free will and we are told we should not use it.
Strike me dead anytime, God. Interesting reading (shorter and easier than THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV) would be JOB: A COMEDY OF JUSTICE by Robert Heinlein, or CAPTAIN STORMFIELD'S VISIT TO HEAVEN by Mark Twain.
