graduation parties "honor" the person by name, do they not? everyone comes and gives presents to the graduate....i dont see the difference?
aa
a number of weeks ago, i mentioned how my niece was seeking reinstatement.
well, after all was said and done, the elders allowed her back in.
my brother and his wife were giving her a little "coming back" party with about a total of 35 guests.
graduation parties "honor" the person by name, do they not? everyone comes and gives presents to the graduate....i dont see the difference?
aa
now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
realist-
so why are you defending powells obviously fabricated report?
the reason i originally got involved in the powell debate is simply because there were posters making his presentation out to be something it wasnt......namely, they were stating that powell claimed to know exactly where stockpiles of wmd were, which ive shown is entirely false. please note that ive never stated powells information was 100% lock tight solid evidence (in fact, ive said several times that imo, the "jury is still out")........i just dont hold the same "he was bold face lying" opinion that you do. i dont think it all has to be as black and white as your side paints it to be.......usually the truth lies somewhere in between, which would be my guess here......maybe the intelligence evidence was faulty.....which as ive said before, would mean simply that every intelligence agency in the world failed miserably on this one.
the last news report that i saw stated that the experts which were brought to iraq strongly doubt that the vehicles were used to produce dangerous germs. the labs were lacking essential parts required to produce bioweapon materials.
there were selected experts that doubted the biolabs, yes.....there were quite a few more that stated the labs couldnt have been conceivably used for anything else....like say, pies and fresh bread.
and i don't see any reason to trust the US more than iraq.
do you see a valid reason to trust iraq more than the u.s. (perhaps saddams long history of being completely honest to his people and the entire world)? or is it just a toss up, and whenever there is a toss up you automatically side against the u.s.?
asked the question before....how did the inspection teams come up with the original numbers
oh, thats pretty simple....they counted them........weve been over this, and youre aware of it, but nothing short of a 2003 inventory will suffice for you. all ive asked all along is "what happened to them"? still no intelligent answer.
that iraq didn't even try to come up with an explanation of what happened to these weapons is somewhat hard to believe.
oh, they came up with an explanation....they said they "destroyed them all".....which is all fine and dandy, providing they can produce documentation of it. i think weve passed the "broken record" stage a while back, and we are well beyond the "dead horse" stage at this point.
after the motto cui bono i don't see how hussein could have profited from keeping WMDs and not giving explanations as to where the WMDs went.
and i dont see how he would have profited by keeping inspectors out of iraq from 1998-2003, knowing full well this was keeping sanctions on his country. why not just fully cooperate the entire time, if he had nothing to hide? another question ive yet to hear a decent response to.
and so far it seem hussein was telling more the truth about the WMDs than powell and bush.
yes, hussein maintained all along that he held no components to his nuclear program, that it was all in the past, and had no plans to ever revive the project......yet, im sure youve seen this:
Obeidi told CNN the parts of a gas centrifuge system for enriching uranium were part of a highly sophisticated system he was ordered to hide to be ready to rebuild the bomb program.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/26/sprj.irq.centrifuge/index.html
now, this is not a "smoking gun", not proof of any current wmd....but it is proof (more proof i should say), that iraq lied on its weapons declaration, and that saddam has been lying about this equipment all along. if they lie about one aspect of their wmd programs, why are you so eager to believe they would tell the absolute truth about the other aspects? baffling.
aa
From what I've seen of the BBC, they are unbiased.
of course they are.......everyone knows that the only media outlets with an agenda are right here in the u.s.a......its sad, so sad, and yet its all most of us get access to.....its no wonder we are all brainwashed nationalists.
aa
The Americans hope that Sahaf, who did not appear in their deck of cards of Iraq's most wanted
i always wondered why he wasnt included as one of the jokers.?.
aa
now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
realist-
if you still want to believe in the honesty of your gov. fine. nothing can convince you of the opposite.
how many times do i have to say on one thread that i believe the u.s. government lies just like all governments do? how many times do i have to say that i dont trust bush or any other politician? geez, its hard to get through to some people.....they hear what they want to hear in order to paint the picture they want to display it seems.
powell presented stuff to the UN that was poorly fabricated trash. that he didn'T write these reports himself is no excuse. the secretary of state should check twice before he talks to the UN in such an important matter. after all this was about war and not about the seating order.
the war was inevitable, long before powell or bush got involved. all this talk about the latest "evidence" is all irrelevant at the end of the day, at least to me personally. ive only humored the arguments because some on here have fashioned their entire stance around them.
what happened to these anyway? last thing i heard is that the experts dissmissed the claim of mobile WMD factories.
well, you heard wrong. there was a debate about it, but they were never "dismissed" as you heard. but, i suppose iraq couldve needed mobile laboratories to make cookies, cakes, and such.
iraqi officials obviously disagreed with the assumption that 1000 tonnes were missing otherwise they would not have submitted such a doc.
really? iraq disagreed? wow, what a shock....and up to that point they had been so forthcoming about any and all banned weapons.
i noticed you bolded the "not jumping to conclusions" part, obviously because it suits your argument.....lets not forget the sentences following that one:
However, that possibility is also not excluded. If they exist, they should be presented for destruction. If they do not exist, credible evidence to that effect should be presented.
they couldnt produce the evidence, and your only response to that is to question the numbers blix provided, with absolutely no backing or merit to your claim. hey, if it makes you sleep better at night, then believe all the numbers were a big lie.......heck, i would take saddams word on any of these issues. after all, hes never lied before, right?
aa
predictions for the new football season: .
1. who will win the premiership?
2. who will be top goal scorer?
cassi-
apparently its some sort of derrogatory term for "american football" fans like me.
aa
predictions for the new football season: .
1. who will win the premiership?
2. who will be top goal scorer?
i thought this was a good article, dealing with a few misconceptions on both sides (meaning american football, and soccer....and yes, i know its not "soccer" to you guys).............
aa
now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
If you are not happy with the thread then stop replying to it an bringing it to the top all the time.
im assuming that comment was directed at me, considering francois has only posted twice to this entire thread, certainly not "bringing it to the top all the time".........so, in response, when did i ever say i wasnt happy with the thread? i love this thread personally, ive enjoyed it all the way through......its been very telling of some.
aa
now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
Does that mean that I can lock this interminable, anti-US thread?
uh-oh.....here comes the standard speech about how there is no anti-us content on this entire board, and no one has ever made an anti-american or anti-us statement on this thread or any other..............
aa
now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
realist-
if i made a mistakable statement than so be it.
well finally, a semi-admission......that wasnt like pulling teeth, was it?
i am talking about powell's report that hussein tried to buy uranium from niger.
we are going around in circles, but here goes anyhow......that report wasnt powells, as your article even said.....he merely mentioned it, and it was later proven to be a forgery. you believe that powell knew that full well at the time (same as the dossier), again, this is your opinion.
i think you can't recognize the very simple fact that powell tired to mislead everyone!
yes, he mislead everyone about the mobile labs too....oh wait, theyve been found.
exactly the same way as in the 1995 report!!!!
youre confused. you see, in 1995, we had an actual inventory number, now we do not....thus the phrase, unaccounted for. the whole point was that we dont know what hes done between now and then, and he cant prove it either. still the same simple question, what happened to them? still no intelligent answer.
perhaps the US should hire only foreigners to do their intelligence work!
well, that would stave off some skepticism.....not a bad idea.
the legal situation is a completely different one. you CANNOT compare breaking sanctions established by the UN with supporting a war. of course there were buisness interests at stake. thats the whole issue of the fucking war!
there were business interests at stake in both cases, that was my point....in one case the u.s. was supported (unanimously), and in the other it was not.
that he was NOT cooperating is a claim mabe by buttler that is VERY debateable!
i suppose we could debate that then, but most of the world believes saddam played games with the inspectors the whole way through....it was more than obvious.
be so kind and look it up. i am too tired to do it.
here you go, blix to the u.n.......
To take an example, a document, which Iraq provided, suggested to us that some 1,000 tonnes of chemical agent were “unaccounted for”. One must not jump to the conclusion that they exist. However, that possibility is also not excluded. If they exist, they should be presented for destruction. If they do not exist, credible evidence to that effect should be presented.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-578338,00.html
the point is that the US and british admins lied about hussein posing a threat in order to get their people to support an unjusttified war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
again, if the u.s. and british amins were incorrect about saddams possession of wmds, then so was every other country on the u.n. security council. one more repeat: my personal beliefs on saddam hussein have never stemmed from any of this "evidence". i dont believe it was a straight forward lie the way you do, but either way, its pretty irrelevant to me personally. i thought saddam shouldve been taken out in 1991, and that was quite a bit before powell gave his report to the u.n., wasnt it? quite a bit before gwb got involved, wasnt it? my feelings on it have never changed.
aa