Dear all,
I just had to tell you.
I'm at home, kids in bed, wife's out (girls night out) I'm watching Liverpool on the telly (no score yet), just finished a curry, drinking lager, reading JW.com.
All at once.
Perfect!
Duncan.
Duncan
JoinedPosts by Duncan
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11
Perfect!
by Duncan indear all,.
i just had to tell you.. i'm at home, kids in bed, wife's out (girls night out) i'm watching liverpool on the telly (no score yet), just finished a curry, drinking lager, reading jw.com.
all at once.. perfect!.
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93
What did you do?
by StiLLinTruth into all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.
come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.
the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?
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Duncan
Interesting post this, StiLL
You say “…the amount of people who "realized that WT doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.”
Me, I would’ve thought that such ones were the overwhelming majority of Ex-JW’s. Most people, sooner or later, just see through it. (Indeed, many do exactly that, and simply can’t break out for one reason or another.)
I think that the idea that all Exes are consumed with bitterness towards the Society because of self-loathing at having failed to live up to its righteous standards is just preposterous.
“Come on, show us your cards.”
Okay, I’m up for it, let’s mark my card:
“Thought it would be "fun" to go and get drunk with worldly friends?”
I’ve always thought that, and always done it. Used to be with Witness friends, now its with normal-people friends. Getting drunk once in a while is great. Most witnesses think that, too.
“Thought it would be cool to start smoking?”
Nope, never.
“Lose faith in the Word because of too much associating with the world?”
I don’t think “association” had much to do with it, so much as education, pure and simple.
“You cheat on your wife or your husband?”
Sorry, no.
“Thought it would be …fun to covet your neighbour's spouse?”
I told you once.
“Or did you just … get into some good pre-marital shagging?”
Blimey, it keeps coming back to sex doesn’t it? Well let me tell you - d’you know what, I read stuff, on these sites, about what people got up to – Kent’s stuff, Englishman sometimes, others too – while they were still “in” and I wonder whether I was the only dumb bastard who fell for all that moral purity stuff. I wasted the best, hormone-raging, sexually driven wildest years of my youth on bible-based celibacy! What an idiot!
“Ya started gambling, and never repented?”
Never seen the point.
“Thought you'd forget about any Christian morals for just a while,”
Found much more true morality (real concern for others, not just those who believe the same, intellectual honesty, genuine humility of spirit) outside the Tower than within. Many times over.
“take a little vacation from all that boring monotonous preaching of the Word?”
Absolutely. Boring, monotonous alright – also wholly irrelevant and unnecessary.
“Just turn completely atheist and believe in worldly "wisdom" ?”
Dunno about completely atheist – leaning that way, certainly. And as far as worldly wisdom is concerned, it’s probably not a wise idea to sneer and mock. The stuff published as “wisdom” , “fine spritual food” by the Watchtower this past century includes so much that is just simply laughable nonsense it’s no wonder the Society discourages people from reading that old stuff, it’s such an embarrassment.
Thirty years ago, I remember the elders in my congregation counselling me not to take further education (sixth form, university etc) because of the worthlessness of this so-called wisdom of the world versus the unchanging truth of Jehovah. Well, the world is still here, its “wisdom” is what keeps my house lit and warm, my kids fed, phones and TV working, hospitals running, a whole host of benefits that would have been viewed as miraculous blessings at any time back in our history. In contrast – all the Watchtower “wisdom” we studied back in 1970 is now out of print and wholly discredited. (“King of the North”, anyone?)
Maybe, StiLL, I’m completely exceptional. But I don’t think so. This idea that all the Exes are evil apostates, sinfully wallowing in their filth and debauchery is just a comforting fantasy for you and your leaders. Stick around here. Learn.
Duncan.
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Should I Respect Mums Wishes?
by Englishman inmy jw mum has chosen not to write a will.
as she has very little in the way of worldly goods, she has asked my brother and i to sell her possesions when the time comes, and give the money to "the congregation".
presumably the jw`s will decide suddenly that it`s now ok to talk to us df'd ones.. also, my mum has asked me to pack up all her 100's of wt books for presentation to the local congregation library.. now, i have to tell you that these books include the original watchtower and awake volumes.
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Duncan
Hi English
I guess, same as all the other posters, that out of commmon decency you probably ought to respect her wishes, right enough.
But I can't help thinking...
Just say the boot was on the other foot, you were the one (for whatever reason, disease say) that was facing death soon, and were dependent on her. If you now expressed a dying wish to have your funeral conducted at a C of E church, do you suppose for one minute that she'd actually honour that wish when it came to it?
Not if she's anything like my mum she wouldn't - the Truth comes first!
Duncan.
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How long was it for you?
by expatbrit ini'm curious: how many years were you in before you left?
by left, i mean either df'd and decided not to go back, or da'd, or faded, or even just realized it was a crock but stuck around anyway for family reasons?.
we're told in la-la-land that it's the newly baptized, those who are "spiritually immature" that mostly leave.
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Duncan
Hi Expat
Interesting question. For me this year marks a kind of turning point in that it is now the case that I have spent more than 50% of my life OUT of the org.
I was in from birth (good as) to 23 years old. Pioneer, MS, public talks , all that stuff.
I have now been out for 23 years.
(I'm sure my dear old mum still harbours hopes for me though)
Duncan.
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Did you burn the sacred documents?
by LovesDubs in...or did you shred the shit out of em so even the garbage man wouldnt become accidentally sucked into this cult like i did?
during the time i read crisis of conscience i went into a two week long rage.
i was angry all the time for being duped and i hated every witness on the planet, mostly for being as stupid as i was, and the upper echelon at the society...i just wanted to castrate them.
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Duncan
Hey Lovesdubs
I HAFTA reply to this one.
During the (fairly brief, looking back on it) time that I was convinced that it was NOT the truth, but feeling trapped within, not easily able to get out, I used to make a point - when round my Elder Father-in-laws house - of taking one of his Watchtowers with me when I used his toilet, and (look away now) wiping my arse with it.
What satisfaction!
Twenty yers on, I still look back and smile.
Duncan.
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Carbon-14 Dating
by Amazing inhello all: in discussing evolution, creation, and bible chronology we will at some point pass through various dating methods that challenge religious beliefs, especially that of the watch tower religion.. some years ago the watch tower society published material (i forget the actual reference) that challenged carbob-14 dating as flawed and prone to error, especially when dating fossils.
the wts cited some sources that dealt with sample contamination that may cause errors in reading half-life of carbon-14.. i wish i could find the article again, because it was published when i was still working in nuclear engineering.
i recall feeling that the wts was stretching the claims to cover the understanding of bible chronology regarding the age of homo sapiens being about 4,026 years.
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Duncan
Hi amazing,
very interesting post.
I must say, though, I myself would only date Carbon-14, if it was with a view to marriage.
Anything else would simply not be theocratic.
Duncan.
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Christmas Shopping
by Duncan indear all.
i'm a new chap here, one of the old h2o refugees who seem to have been streaming to this place recently.. englishman suggested i post my "christmas shopping" post as a kind of introductory-hi-and-how-are-you.
hope you like it, despite it not being terribly seasonal at the moment.. i'll look forward to posting here in the future (original stuff i mean, not just reheated "greatest hits" like this).
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Duncan
Thanks everyone for such a warm welcome! Like Thirdson said, there's a lot of old friends here already.
Looking forward to joining in.
Regards
Duncan.
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Christmas Shopping
by Duncan indear all.
i'm a new chap here, one of the old h2o refugees who seem to have been streaming to this place recently.. englishman suggested i post my "christmas shopping" post as a kind of introductory-hi-and-how-are-you.
hope you like it, despite it not being terribly seasonal at the moment.. i'll look forward to posting here in the future (original stuff i mean, not just reheated "greatest hits" like this).
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Duncan
Dear All
I'm a new chap here, one of the old H2O refugees who seem to have been streaming to this place recently.
Englishman suggested I post my "Christmas Shopping" post as a kind of introductory-Hi-and-how-are-you. Hope you like it, despite it not being terribly seasonal at the moment.
I'll look forward to posting here in the future (original stuff I mean, not just reheated "greatest hits" like this)
Duncan.
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CHRISTMAS SHOPPING (17/12/00)
This weekend was Christmas Shopping for myself and Mrs Duncan. We spent the day in crowded shops, fighting our way through the press of bodies, securing this years must-have toys and gadgets for our kids.
At one point, we split up, I needed to go to the cash machine to get some money. I walked to the end of the street where the bank was. Of course, the week before Christmas, there was a big long queue. My heart sank, but I settled down for a longish wait.
The line moved slowly. Step by step I got closer. At last, I was only second-in-line. But the chap in front seemed to be having some trouble.
“Oh bugger!”
“What is it, mate?” I said.
“I think the machine has run out of cash”
Typical! Still, not unexpected this time of year, I suppose.
Behind me a voice called out “Hey, what’s the hold up?”
“No money!” said the chap in front.
“What?”
“ NO MONEY!” he shouted back.
This caused a stir.
“You hear that? There’s no money! NO MONEY!”
People started pushing and shoving. A fight broke out. People were shouting.
“There’s NO MONEY!! Our cards are worthless! The system has collapsed! It’s ALL OVER!”
There were now people fighting and rolling around in the street. Blood everywhere.
Next thing I knew there was a tremendous sound of smashing glass, as two people came through a shop window, gouging and biting at each other. A car went out of control and ploughed into a group of people who had also stated fighting. Everywhere people were screaming that their money was worthless.
A woman appeared at an upstairs window and started throwing her gold and silver into the streets.
The sky suddenly filled with lightning, and the buildings all around seemed to simultaneously burst into flames. More vehicles in the street went out of control, and then suddenly a great fissure opened in the ground and people and children and dogs and ladies on bicycles and 50’s –style American cars started falling into it.
I noticed that some people near me fell to the ground as their eyes started rotting in their sockets, I could just about hear what they were saying, it was truly pitiful, their anguish:
“Why , oh, WHY didn’t we listen to Jehovah’s Witnesses when they called? We were too proud and wicked!”
Another chap further down the street was calling out. He has a serious head wound from some sharp implement – and he also had the eye-rotting thing. His teeth, though, looked fine. I could see he was gnashing them, so it was a bit difficult to make out what he was saying, but it sounded like:
“ I was too stiff-necked to listen to the message! I always knew Christmas was a Babylonish false religious festival, but I allowed my wickedness to blind me to the truth! Oh, for a Watchtower!”
This astonishing scene of devastation was playing itself out in front of me, and I had just about counted a thousand at my left hand and ten thousand at my right hand who had perished, when all of a sudden, the fellow who had been at the front of the queue said:
“Oh, no - wait a minute! I was keying in the wrong PIN number. It’s perfectly okay, after all!”
The skies cleared and the fighting died down. People’s eyes seemed to clear up and various groups of folk were standing up and brushing each other’s clothing off. People were smiling and wishing each other Merry Christmas.
The line reformed and we stood around watching the arrival of the emergency services moving in to deal with the casualties.
I got my cash and rejoined my wife, and we went to the carol service at our local church.
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Child Molestation
by Friend infollowing is a slightly improved version of something i posted onto various web site forums a few months ago.
i hope it helps those working so hard on this subject.
what is revealed about the societys motivations regarding reporting (or not) of child abuse to secular authorities?
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Duncan
Dear Friend,
You wrote
“…though a sexual predator of children is a threat to an entire community the Society still prefers to keep knowledge of such a person’s conduct privileged. …this is a deplorable act, an act of selfishness on the part of the Society.”
and
“…the Society has demonstrated that it is less concerned with the real and day-to-day interests of helpless and innocent children than it is with its own instrumentational viability.”
Now, I, for one, am delighted to see in this post you seeming to be on the right side of this issue. But now I wonder what all that arguing with Focus on the other thread was about. Your stance is a puzzle, and not just to me, I think.
Is it the case that you’ll write stuff, like the above, encouraging replies from posters generally supporting you/r position and then turn on those same posters, subjecting their material to forensic and minute semantic examination only to end up declaring that we’ve all “missed the point” and we “need to be more precise” and that none of the criticisms of the Society are valid etc. etc. - (as your track record indicates you’re likely to do) ?
What is your purpose? Do you want the Society to be brought to book on these matters? Are you active in some way in remedying the deplorable situation you describe above?
Duncan.
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Will JW`s Vote In April Election?
by Englishman ini wonder what will happen to any jw`s who choose to vote in the next uk election?.
i have been talking to an english jw pensioner who reckons that he has had his senior citizens pension increase by over 1000 per annum -about $1600 - under tony blairs labour government, he says: "no way do i want to see the tories get back in again, i`m much better off with labour in power".. he may well be tempted to vote for his choice of government within the next 3 or 4 weeks.
unlike us voting laws, the english government has to call a national election within 5 years of the previous one.
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Duncan
Hi English, how are you?
Elections, eh? The one that always sticks out in my mind was in June 1970, when the Tories unexpectly got in under Ted Heath. As it happened, it was the month I started pioneering.
A strong rumour went around in the days before the election that, if Ted Heath got to power "the first thing he will do is ban Jehovah's Witnesses!"
In our congrregation, we all believed this totally (no one ever thought to question what possible means he was supposed to employ to bring about this outrageous and undemocratic state of affairs - we were just thrilled to bits that persecution was coming - and so could Armageddon be far behind?).
Well Ted got in, and had his moment of power. But no persecution, no Armageddon. Thirty one years later, he's still an MP (but not much longer, I guess).
This was a serious talking point in the summer of 1970 in my (London Suburb) congregation. Did this rumour ever get as far as WSM?
Duncan.